Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone.
I tried searching the forums for this info but it is ridiculous to look thru about 2000 messages from all of the forums. I wish we could search just the feeder forum.

Anyway, I recall seeing alot of messages about protein and fat in the diet but need more info.
I currently use only Harlan 2018 Rodent Diet for my colony. I copied this from their website:

(2018 is a fixed formula, non-autoclavable diet containing 18% protein and 5% fat. Promotes gestation, lactation, and consistent growth of rodents.)
I was told by my Harlan rep that the 2018 is what they use for their breeders.

Do you think the fat content is too low? My breeders do have back-to-back litters. I have read that nursing mamas should have more fat.
Harlan has a diet that's higher in fat - Harlan 8626 Mouse Breeder Diet. This product has 21% protein and 10% fat. I copied this from their website:

(Product Description---Harlan Teklad Mouse Breeder Diet (W) is a complete and fixed formula diet designed to meet the energy needs of certain strains of mice during maximum reproduction and experimental stress. Harlan Teklad Mouse Breeder Diet (W) is properly balanced and fortified with vitamins and minerals to insure adequate nutritional intake even though mice may consume less feed because of the diet’s high energy content.)

Would the 10% fat be too much? How about the protein? At what point is TOO MUCH protein??
Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brian

>>2018 is a fixed formula, non-autoclavable diet containing 18% protein and 5% fat. Promotes gestation, lactation, and consistent growth of rodents.)
>>I was told by my Harlan rep that the 2018 is what they use for their breeders.
>>
>>Do you think the fat content is too low? My breeders do have back-to-back litters. I have read that nursing mamas should have more fat.
>>Harlan has a diet that's higher in fat - Harlan 8626 Mouse Breeder Diet. This product has 21% protein and 10% fat. I copied this from their website:
>>
>>Product Description---Harlan Teklad Mouse Breeder Diet (W) is a complete and fixed formula diet designed to meet the energy needs of certain strains of mice during maximum reproduction and experimental stress. Harlan Teklad Mouse Breeder Diet (W) is properly balanced and fortified with vitamins and minerals to insure adequate nutritional intake even though mice may consume less feed because of the diet’s high energy content.)
>>
>>Would the 10% fat be too much? How about the protein? At what point is TOO MUCH protein??
>>Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

My thoughts are...one, you talked to the people trying to sell the products....so everything they say is rosy colored. That and they may raise there rats in climate controlled areas that don't require 'extra' to maintain body weight etc. Also, are they breeding back to back litters? Are they breeding with production and growth as a priority?
I personally aim for a low to mid 20%s protein and high single digit fat % for my rats and slightly higher for the mice.
I have yet to find a lab block that my rats will eat with any reliability. Generally they pave the floor with them and piss on them...literally. And when I have had rats and mice on lab block they didn't reproduce as well as they did on a varied diet of dog kibble, corn, oats and sunflower with occasional fresh veges that I feed normally.
-----
Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.