Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've read up on the whole "mixing" issue, and recognize that most of you don't think it's a good idea. I am in the completion stage of my 48 gallon tank, and wanted some opnions. I am not interested in breeding any frogs at this time. I want a vivarium with a variety of colors, and therefore, different species of PDFs. My question is: knowing I want to mix species, (and promising to flush any resulting eggs), what would you guys recommend as far as a wide variety of frogs? I only want about 6 total, and I'm partial to tincs. Is it possible to combine say, 2 patricias, with 2 blue jeans, and 2 powder blues? Would they be too competitive? I'm going to seperate the 2 halves of the tank with a water feature, a bunch of plant species, a coco panel background, and a cool-mist humidifier. - do you all think there would be enough room/cover for them to live in harmony?
Or, should I get a couple of tincs and then some dendros, (like auratus)? Or would the comfortable living requirements be unable to create with such different frogs?
I guess what I'm asking is, are there any frogs of different species that occur together naturally in the wild?

Sorry for such a long post, I just wanted to know what my options are here. I'm starting a second tank soon, and I'll be done in time to seperate any feuding mixes - I'm not looking to buy for a couple of months and just wanted to see what you all thought.

Thanks alot!

Tincs and auratus are both member of the same genus (dendrobates). and blue jeans are a very rare type of pumilio which would cost alot with a long waiting list. But I wouldnt recommend many tincs in a cage because the females fight and females can kill each other. I would recomend a single species tank just because of the fact that larger frogs like tincs might out compete smaller frogs like auratus foor food.
-----
As of 1/7/04
1.2.3 Leucomelas (the 3 juveniles are the brightest orange I've seen there almost red, there not from my trio)
1.1.14 Green and Bronze Auratus
0.0.2 Imitators
0.0.1 Vents (more soon)
0.0.2 Nicaraguan Green and Black Auratus
0.0.3 Citronella Tincs
0.0.2 Powder Blue Tincs
0.0.2 Yellow Back Tincs

You can mix if CAREFUL, and flushing eggs is a great idea.... but I would say that 6 frogs in a 46 gallon with a water area might be a little much. Now if you want a natural wild mixture, I would say auratus and a vittatus would do great. The picture is a thin-lined vittatus. and then later if you can find a blue-jean pumilio... you would have yourself a Costa Rica tank!!

As for mixing tincs.... you do have to watch for fighting, and would be best off flushing eggs, but different tinc morphs will just be like housing a group of the same morph together, you have to watch how they inter act. You could also check out galactonotus, they would add another flash of color. These are in the "Tinc group" so they could mix/breed with tinc, auratus ect. If you want to see what frogs are in the same "groups" then check out my link below.

Hope this helps, but please flush all eggs...

B. Green
"Purest on a Soap box"

Frog grouping and photo gallery

thankg for the advice guys - I'm still thinking it all over and shopping around. If I do mix, I'll definately be flushing if they reproduce. I don't know alot about this hobby yet, but I know that I don't want to contribute to the bastardization of these great little amphibs.

To just be starting out in this hobby and already thinking about mixing frogs together is sort of crazy to me. You should get a 10 gal tank and set it up with some nice Auratus and see if you can do well with that type. The easy part is setting up a pretty tank with lots of plants and buying frogs. The hard part is keeping them alive over period of time. You need to gain experience in food requirements, living conditions for the frogs, and other things you run into with dart frogs. People that jump in over their heads usualy loose interest fast because of early failure. Ending up in the death of alot of frogs and alot of money out of your pocket. Slow down. WAY DOWN. Im not trying to be a A hole here. But starting out the right way makes or breaks if you stay in this awsome hobby.

I tend to agree with Kfrogger. It's not all about having a colorful tank, as with dispensible, cheap tropical fish you can replace for a couple of bucks. Before you consider mixing, you should explore the individual personalities of these various frogs in groups or pairs. They do have different personalities, most of them delightful to watch. Get about four leukomelas for your first tank. Watch what they do and how they interact with each other. You could start out with several other species just as well, but the leuks are particularly active and entertaining. Once you have mastered the leuks, try a couple of thumbnails such as imitators or vents in a tall 30 gallon with some bromeliads. Then see if you really want to mix them, or simply keep adding more vivariums until your house is full of frogs in separate environments. Get the single experience first, then consider what you want to mix. If I could even find a pair of Blue Jeans, which I haven't been able to do, I sure wouldn't want to make them a part of an art scene that might stress them out. As far as flushing eggs, I very much doubt you would get any to flush, because in a close mixed environment, there wouldn't be any peaceful breeding going on. Before you even think about mixing, you should at least experience keeping a single specie first. Even if you chose frogs from the same area, that normally overlap territories, think about this a bit. Their natural territories are huge, many acres, and upwards many meters. You will be putting them in a 42 gallon tank, at the most 24 inches tall. There's a vast difference between what gets along in a matter of miles and meters as to what gets along together in a 42 gallon vivarium.
-----
Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus pending

i have to agree with ben's suggestions. it would probably be best to mix some Epipedobates, Phyllobates, or Dendrobates. most of the Epipedobates & Phyllobates do well in groups as do some of the following Dendrobates: leucomelas, galactonotus , and auratus. so you could keep a couple of one of those Dendrobates and then get some similar sized Epipedobates or Phyllobates. P. terribilis is pretty big, so they might be okay with the larger auratus, or some of the Epipedobates. but P. aurotaenia and P. vitattus would be around the same size of the "group" Dendrobates i listed... so they might be better. if you go small you could get some E. tricolor to throw into the mix. as far as pumilio... i would keep them seperate, as they are hard to get an expensive.. so why add any extra stress to such a coveted frog. i gues you could add them or another thumbnails and it would work... but it might be best to stick to all similar sized frogs. also if you go with mixing the different types (Epipedobates, Phyllobates, Dendrobates) then you wouldn't have to worry about hybrids and could keep the eggs! sorry for this being so long and i hope i didn't ramble all over the place, but those are just some of my ideas on the subject.

If you planning on mixing in the fashion you described, I would go with a bigger tank (at least 75 gallons). When mixing you need more space and lots of plant cover to keep frogs from stressing. If you are going to mix species in the 48 gallon tank, I would recommend 3 or less frogs. On a side note, if you end up with more than one female, they will destroy each others eggs and you won't have to flush.

Mixing can certainly be done, but it carries risks that may not be worth it.

I hear you guys loud and clear - no mixing for right now, I don't know enough about them yet. But would combining 2 cobalt blues and 2 powder blues be considered mixing? I suppose not, because they're both tincs, but of course- I could be wrong.

They are the same species, so you would have to worry about the usual stuff. Primarily, if you have 2 females together, they tend to wrestle and fight a lot. This can lead into trouble if you have a pond feature or one female dominates the other to the point that it looses out in competition. Make sure the frogs you get are all about the same size and age and try to introduce them to terrarium at the same time (make sure you quarantine as necessary).

Don't forget to watch the eggs - you don't want to cross the morphs.

I have had a mixed tank of azureus and orange bicolors now for a year and a half with no problems at all. They are in a 44 corner tank with a large water feature. No fighting, all are fat and healthy, and the tank looks great. There are 3 female azureus and 3 bicolors of unknown sex just in case anyone wants to know.

A friend of mine set up a 180 gallon frog tank with a mix of every tinc morph I have ever seen. There were probably 20 frogs in the tank, all tincs except a male azureus. Every frog was a male though. He did this by purchasing extra adult males from breeders and taking extra males he had after grow outs and putting them all together. There was never a problem with fighting, and the tank looked absolutely spectacular.

If you really just want a tank with a bunch of color and no mating then try to get a bunch of males and it should work for you too.
-----
1.1.3 D. azureus
0.0.8 P. bicolor
0.0.7 D. auratus (polka-dot)
0.0.3 D. auratus (blue)
0.0.3 D. auratus (kahlua and cream)

Shannon