Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have two large females that I want to breed to a pastel. Are there any "industry" - wide guidelines on what the split should be for the hatchlings?

Some people do breeding loans with animals naturally, usually it is with a couple of higher dollars morphs or loaning males to other breeders, What the ratio out of a clutch of pastels would be will depend on the individual breeder though

Good Luck

Take care

Bryan

www.exoticballpythons.com

im not sure if this is what your after but you have 2 females that you want to breed to a male pastel that you do not own

i would say the split should be 50/50
sorta like when you were a kid and were playing sports and did picking teams

thats how i think it should be done

You're forgetting the vlue of the snake...if I had a mojave and bred it to someones normals... my snake is obviously worth more..so I would get more of the eggs. JMHO

Joel

>>im not sure if this is what your after but you have 2 females that you want to breed to a male pastel that you do not own
>>
>>i would say the split should be 50/50
>>sorta like when you were a kid and were playing sports and did picking teams
>>
>>thats how i think it should be done
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- Joel Smith

Email Me!

Adult female, breedable, healthy Ball Pythons are the same value as a male Pastel. Clutches should be 50/50. If it was a Pied, Caramel, Clown, Spider, etc etc male then the owner of the male would get more. But a Pastel male is about the equivalent value of a normal breedable female (sort of) so I'd split the clutches evenly.

A normal adult big female sells for the same as an adult pastel?
Did the pastel market drop that much?
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RicK BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.

I paid $1,200.00 for my pastel. I also have 12 adult females ball pythons.......I would be happy to sell them to you for, lets say a grand each. I'll sell you sub adult females for $500.00ea.

Wow, I could make me some money, I only have about $600.00 invested in the females.

Okay, I'm a smart as* and just joking around a lil but seriously.

I would say that if someone wanted to do a breeding loan with me and I paired up a pastel male to a normal female I would only give one pastel male to that person.

James W. Arnold

Do I hear an amen?
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RicK BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.

This is not a clear cut breeding loan where your breeding two equal value animals, such as breeding a normal to a normal. The deal would have to be carefully worked out between the two parties involved. If you get 10 eggs out of two females, and the resulting offspring contains only 2 pastels, I would doubt the owner of the pastel would be willing to give one up. That would equal basically giving you a grand to produce him/her one pastel that he/she gets to keep worth approx. a grand. And outside of that, they get 50% of the normals....WHOOPIE!!! The person with the pastel would be far better off just buying their own female ball even if they OVERPAID in the area of 300 bucks. Now things also change if your working with recessive traits...all the babies will be hets. So, I can see an even split being a little more realistic, but would still say 60/40 would be more than fair on the part of the guy with the high end animal. YES...w/o your females, that is less babies he may potentially have, but if they were that worried about it, they could buy their own. There is a bunch of things to consider, your just going to have to find someone willing to do it at all first, then see if you can agree on terms. If you can't I guess you move on. Take care!

I have about 10 females ready to go....fair game right, 50/50?

I don't think so. JMHO!!!!!

>>Adult female, breedable, healthy Ball Pythons are the same value as a male Pastel. Clutches should be 50/50. If it was a Pied, Caramel, Clown, Spider, etc etc male then the owner of the male would get more. But a Pastel male is about the equivalent value of a normal breedable female (sort of) so I'd split the clutches evenly.
-----
- Joel Smith

Email Me!

I wouldn't do it because I have more than enough females to accomodate him, not to mention he's going to be paired with things other than normals.

But if I owned a male breeder pastel and no adult females and it was January 14th? I would GLADLY do a 50/50 split with the eggs. 50% of something is better than 100% of NOTHING. No question.

Argue all you want, I have had many deals with breeding loans, and its not all about market value, classified prices, etc etc. Every situation is different. If you can't see that, then too bad. Its not my place to make you see it. The guy asked for advice, and I gave it to him. So did a bunch of other people. Now its blinky's job determine what's best for him and his friend. All your arguing is going to do squat for their transaction(s). And squat for any of mine.

Peace out.

As you can see at the end of my posts "JHMO"

That means its my opinion, which I am entitled too, geeze.

>>I wouldn't do it because I have more than enough females to accomodate him, not to mention he's going to be paired with things other than normals.
>>
>>But if I owned a male breeder pastel and no adult females and it was January 14th? I would GLADLY do a 50/50 split with the eggs. 50% of something is better than 100% of NOTHING. No question.
>>
>>Argue all you want, I have had many deals with breeding loans, and its not all about market value, classified prices, etc etc. Every situation is different. If you can't see that, then too bad. Its not my place to make you see it. The guy asked for advice, and I gave it to him. So did a bunch of other people. Now its blinky's job determine what's best for him and his friend. All your arguing is going to do squat for their transaction(s). And squat for any of mine.
>>
>>Peace out.
-----
- Joel Smith

Email Me!

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am not?

Peace out.

read my posts...

>>You are entitled to your opinion, but I am not?
>>
>>Peace out.
-----
- Joel Smith

Email Me!

Really? A healthy adult breedable ball python female is worth the same as a patel male? In that case, I have about 8 2500 females available, clean as a bell, only asking $1600 each. I assume you're interested?

I obviously agree that if I were to get into somebody with that deal I wouldn't do a 50/50 split. I'd probably either do a $$$-based fee or I'd do a 'pick of the litter' or something. A pastel baby should easily be worth $500 next year which would be enough to compensate for the original cost of the female plus probably an entire year's worth of food.

Did you read the post?

Its a PASTEL breeder loan, HUGE difference.

I am using an adult male pastel that is a breeder loan. I am breeding him to my normal females and splitting the PASTEL babies 50/50, and I am keeping all the normal babies. A 50/50 split is more than fair.

The reasons I'm doing the breder loan are
1. The pastels owner had 0 breedable females.
2. I have 12 breedable normal females for my 1 pastel male.

It works out great for both of us, He gets pastels without breeding anything, and I get more pastels than my male could give me.

The reasons I'm doing the breder loan are
1. The pastels owner had 0 breedable females.
2. I have 12 breedable normal females for my 1 pastel male.

It works out great for both of us, He gets pastels without breeding anything, and I get more pastels than my male could give me.

Exactly. More than fair if you ask me. The guy can either have NO pastels, or 1/2 of SOME pastels. Not rocket science as to what is the best deal for him, right?!!

Best of luck man! I hope you hatch a TON!

My comment is this: Why would someone who has a Pastel, or any other high dollar animals, be willing to let it be loaned out, or have it breed someone else's animals? I have pastels, I also have females to breed them to. Why would I want to bring an unknown animal (loaner's female(s)) into my breeding collection? What is there to gain? two, three more hatchlings? What is there to lose? I think you know that answer.. My two cents..

"Why would I want to bring an unknown animal (loaner's female(s)) into my breeding collection? "..........

The animal that I have on loan was in my collection until March of 2003.

"What is there to gain? two, three more hatchlings?".............

With the current arrangement, we both COULD gain 12-20 or more hatchlings EACH, 1/2 of which should be pastels. (thats IF 6 girls produce 4-6 eggs each.) I'm sure this could go alot better and possibly even worse.

"What is there to lose? I think you know that answer.."

Your right I do know the answer, WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE......

And the comment regarding that an adult female ball python is worth the same amount as a adult Pastel. This person either does not know what he is talking about, or just can't afford to purchase a Pastel, and is cranky...

When I produced a gangload of my own. If I wanted another one, I'd just keep one back. Which I did. Twice.

And why would a statement make me cranky? Maybe YOU'RE the one that's cranky. I feel just fine. I commented on the guy's situation just like EVERYONE else. If YOU don't agree with that comment, that makes me cranky by default?

No, that makes you a ****** for saying that by default. Ha ha.

Snakes are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. I had a friend that was in a bind and needed extra females that were breedable. He needed animals he KNEW were CB ADULTS. I sold him 2 females that I produced in 1996 for like $3,000. He bred both and they had 16 eggs between them, worth $14,000. We both did ok on the deal. Who are YOU to say what is worth what? I wouldn't take a WC adult Ball into my collection, even if someone paid me $500. Does that make the market for WC Balls MINUS $500? No. One person does not control the market. Certain animals are worth very different amounts for different people. I'm sure my Dad wouldn't pay $50 for a Spider Ball, whereas I'd pay $15,000 for one. Does that make them worth $50?

Signing off...the not cranky one.....

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The rambling about prices is just BS. You know how it works, and yeah some animals are worth more than others, but not to the degree your speaking. I understand that a 5 dollar gecko can be "PRICELESS" to it's owner, but in the REAL world it's worth exactly 5 bucks! At a difference in price that your speaking of, a wc wouldn't be a bad deal. By the time you got done treating it, and getting it up to par, you'd still save about 2500 bucks roughly. Great he made thousands, he would've made a couple thousand more if he hadn't gotten screwed on the price. But of course he supposedly paid it, so he can't complain I guess. And like James said, if you value common CBB female balls that high, I have one I'll sell you for 2,000 anytime you want to send me the cash. You can get a buyer before hand, get the 3 grand from them, and just forward me my cut! Heck, I'll go even better, you get 3 grand, and I'll split the difference and sell her to you for 1500 even, and I'll even pay shipping!

And like James said, if you value common CBB female balls that high, I have one I'll sell you for 2,000 anytime you want to send me the cash.

That's the difference. I don't value YOUR CBB females that high. I've never seen them, I've never checked them out, I've never seen them eat. The two females I sold I felt huge-a$$ follicles in around November/December and they were primed for breeding. And that's when they were sold. Exactly 2 week before I would have normally bred them I would have bet the farm that they would have had 14 eggs between them, EASY. 100% guaranteed. (they had 16 eggs, 8 each) Therefore, even if they were bred with a normal male, they would have put out $1,400 worth of animals. But I had a pastel male kicking around and he would have made those clutches easily worth $5,000 each. So that made the adult females worth a little more to me. It was a friend, so I was helping him out. He KNEW they would go as well. Its all about being confident in your ability as a breeder to KNOW what is going to go and what isn't. It wasn't a gamble on his part and I even got a few 100% hets out of the deal, as well as my $$.

I would never advertise an adult female normal for more than say $200 US. But then again, I would never advertise an adult female ball that I palpated and KNEW was going to blow eggs in 4 months.

I don't care what you think animals are worth. I know the market value. I also know the value in a certain animal at a certain time. And there is SERIOUS money to be made at certain times with certain animals. Its done all the time.

Well, my female is on loan to Alex B. right now, give him a call and see how she feeds-LOL! It's great it worked out for you both. As far as being a "good" breeder and KNOWING what's going to drop, that's pretty arrogant as NOTHING is guaranteed. Yeah, she may drop eggs, doesn't mean they'll be fertile, doesn't mean they'll hatch, etc. There's way too many variables to say that you can predict with 100% certainty what is going to happen. If things were that easy, prices would definitely not be where they are. That's not to say Balls are hard to breed...they're not. But you get the point. Take care.

Paul

Yeah, she may drop eggs, doesn't mean they'll be fertile, doesn't mean they'll hatch, etc

That wouldn't have been her fault.

There's no guarantee that the very electricity that heats my house isn't also going to burn it down. But that doesn't mean that BC Hydro gives it to me for free!!

Your overpriced sale aside, my point was your arrogance to predict with certainty any event when it comes to egg production. You assume things, and even have good indications...so infertile eggs, not her problem, but what if she dies egg bound? Not her problem either I guess in your eyes, because that could fall under the keepers husbandry errors. And what the heck does burning your house down and getting free power have to do with anything that's been said? You acted as if you made the high dollar sale because it was a guaranteed success. Your power company is selling you power at the same rate as everyone else, and they guarantee you will have power until you don't pay your bill, or there's a power outage. If it burns down, that's what home owners insurance is for. Did you offer a guarantee to the buyer, and promise him a minimum of 14 GOOD FERTILE HATCHING EGGS??? If this was not an expressed guarantee, how sure were you? I'll buy all your overpriced females too IF you can give me guaranteed success rates. Geez, who wouldn't?!?! So, I await your next response, as I can see you have to have the last word, I will keep going and going and going and going and going...etc. If you take a second to get a reality check, there are many who disagree with your statement, and I'm yet to see anyone other than YOU that agrees with you. So, what's next....the gas station doesn't guarantee your car won't run out, so do they give it to you? The mechanic can't guarantee your car won't break down, but he doesn't fix your car for free? So many dumb scenarios that could be brought up, though most have nothing to do with the point-To say you can guarantee anything with live animals is foolhearty! Take care.

You acted as if you made the high dollar sale because it was a guaranteed success

Ummm...that's PRECISELY why we did it. And that's how it worked out. Not arrogance. Not at all. Not sure why you're getting all worked up about it. I related a situation where I had a transaction with a friend where we both got helped out (the money was flipped to buy some Womas that I couldn't pass up) and it was win-win. I'm sorry you can't see that (actually I'm not).

Did you offer a guarantee to the buyer, and promise him a minimum of 14 GOOD FERTILE HATCHING EGGS???

I kind of did actually, how nice of you to ask. But it never came up, because like we said, we were pretty certian we'd get them to go for him. Watch the BP video by the Sutherlands. You can get the knowledge to predict these things as well!

So, I await your next response, as I can see you have to have the last word, I will keep going and going and going and going and going...etc.

Somebody posts a reply to your hot-headed, uninformed posts and that means hey have to have the last word by default? LOL! This is like arguing with a 5 year old.

If you take a second to get a reality check, there are many who disagree with your statement, and I'm yet to see anyone other than YOU that agrees with you

I counted 4 other people that agreed in the thread. And I could count to 4 by the age of 5 sooooo.....what's your excuse?

I don't care if you agree or not. Why you can't just have a normal discussion. It could be fun. But no, instead you have to fly off the handle, and then nobody learns anything. Too bad, though not my loss. My friend is happy that his $3,000 investment turned into $14,000, and I'm happy that I bought a pair of Womas for 0.2 female Balls that I produced in 1996. Nothing wrong with that. My last post on the subject. I like to discuss, but not on your level, sorry.

Cheerio.
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Ummm...that's PRECISELY why we did it. And that's how it worked out. Not arrogance. Not at all. Not sure why you're getting all worked up about it. I related a situation where I had a transaction with a friend where we both got helped out (the money was flipped to buy some Womas that I couldn't pass up) and it was win-win. I'm sorry you can't see that (actually I'm not).

We'll do this in your style...You haven't seen worked up, so quit trying to paint a picture that isn't there. Only thing I'm getting worked up about is that you obviously think you are some sort of ball python god. Maybe that's why everyone knows who you are...oops! We DON'T! Your lil thing worked out for you one time, great...now guarantee everything. Bet ya can't do it. If you'd like go ahead and give me exact numbers on your fertile clutches this year, your average number of infertile eggs, your ratio of pastels to normals in those litters, how many fertile eggs will go bad, etc. If you can't get my point yet, maybe you need to relearn some of the things you learned by age 5. Basically you have to admit you can not guarantee things with live animals, I don't care what video ya watched sport.

I kind of did actually, how nice of you to ask. But it never came up, because like we said, we were pretty certian we'd get them to go for him. Watch the BP video by the Sutherlands. You can get the knowledge to predict these things as well!

Wait...you were PRETTY CERTAIN??? I thought you KNEW! And what is there success ration on breeding ball females back to back? Is this where you get all your info? Did watching a video make you an expert or a psychic?

Somebody posts a reply to your hot-headed, uninformed posts and that means hey have to have the last word by default? LOL! This is like arguing with a 5 year old.

Hot headed? Uninformed? How am I uninformed that you or no one else can predict with certainty the outcome of breeding animals. How many breedings do you hear about that are unsuccessful? If you can't understand all the variables involved in breeding snakes, to see that nothing is guaranteed, maybe you should watch your video again. Well, if this is all the better you can do against the likes of a 5 year old, you yourself might want to study up.

I counted 4 other people that agreed in the thread. And I could count to 4 by the age of 5 sooooo.....what's your excuse?

Agreed with what? The terms of the breeding loan? Yippie for you. How many agree that a NORMAL FEMALE is worth the same price as an ADULT READY TO BREED PASTEL MALE? You have a real thing about ages don't you? Does this stem from your experiences dealing with people in real life?

I don't care if you agree or not. Why you can't just have a normal discussion. It could be fun. But no, instead you have to fly off the handle, and then nobody learns anything. Too bad, though not my loss. My friend is happy that his $3,000 investment turned into $14,000, and I'm happy that I bought a pair of Womas for 0.2 female Balls that I produced in 1996. Nothing wrong with that. My last post on the subject. I like to discuss, but not on your level, sorry.

Define a "normal" discussion. What's not fun about this. I am making a very simple point, your not getting it. That point again is you can't guarantee crap. You can make guesses, that's all. Do you really think I have flown off anything? If you do, you have really lived a sheltered life. This is what people in the real world call a discussion. We are discussing our opinions. Nobody has been flamed or called out, and my computer monitor isn't smashed, so I fail to see how anyone has flown off the handle yet. Quit trying to paint a picture that isn't there. It's as simple as I'm not going to sit here and listen to you talk as if you know all. I would say if anyone has gotten upset it might be you. You have referred to me in many negative ways. You mention my "level", defer my intelligence to that of a 5 year old. Have I insulted your intelligence in some way? Does challenging your word insult you? That would be the only way that I have, besides saying your last point was dumb. It was and is. You also seem to mention money in most your posts. Do you even care about the animals or just the money? You also used pics in one of your post just to boast. "Why do I need to do anything, I'll just keep my own...." That's great for you, did that make you feel better? Come back with...how many pastels do you have? I don't have ANY pastels. I don't want any pastels or I would own some. They're not the be all end all of snakes. But, I will say this, you could own every pastel in the country and all the lessers, spiders, etc. and it doesn't mean you know jack. It's just means you spent more money on snakes than most normal people would do. WHOA! Impresses me! Is this the part where I post pics to try to impress everyone? Would that bring me up to your "level"? The only kleenex I'll be needing is to wipe the tears of joy away from me eyes when this be said and done! You said you were done....it's gonna eat you up inside not to reply isn't it? It's okay, stoop to my level one more time. I mean how hard can it be to outwit someone on a 5 year old level. That is what you said about me right?

And the comment regarding that an adult female ball python is worth the same amount as a adult Pastel. This person either does not know what he is talking about, or just can't afford to purchase a Pastel, and is cranky.........

LMFAO, I don't think hes the one who doesn't know what hes talking about, the guy may be from canadia, but he does have some beautiful animals.......

A healthy breedable adult female could actually be worth more to a keeper than an adult pastel male, depending on the other morphs in thier collection.

d think about it ,,,,,,,,he can do what ever he wants,,[bleep] i think my het for piedball female is worth at least as much as the pied male that was bred to her,,,,jmo

I used the Mojave analogy to prove that it isn't ALWAYS a 50/50 spilt on everything. No need to get all pissy.

And I agree, an adult female can be worth much more than a Pastel, BUT when you are asking about a breeding loan in the first place to USE a pastel, it's not worth the same.

If you had a Spider/Mojave/Clown high end animal that you wanted to use as a stud, and the female was a 12 egg layer, then she'd be worth a TON.

JMHO!!!

>>Did you read the post?
>>
>>Its a PASTEL breeder loan, HUGE difference.
>>
>>I am using an adult male pastel that is a breeder loan. I am breeding him to my normal females and splitting the PASTEL babies 50/50, and I am keeping all the normal babies. A 50/50 split is more than fair.
>>
>>The reasons I'm doing the breder loan are
>>1. The pastels owner had 0 breedable females.
>>2. I have 12 breedable normal females for my 1 pastel male.
>>
>>It works out great for both of us, He gets pastels without breeding anything, and I get more pastels than my male could give me.
-----
- Joel Smith

Email Me!

If you had a Spider/Mojave/Clown high end animal that you wanted to use as a stud, and the female was a 12 egg layer, then she'd be worth a TON.

Now imagine its nearing the end of January, you have ZERO females to throw at any one of those males and you have an entire 2004 of lost income staring you in the face. What do you do? Save the male out of spite and get ZERO eggs, ZERO babies, ZERO pastel females to hold back to produce supers in 2006 etc etc etc? Or do you buck it and just loan out the male and split whatever the Ball Gods grace you with?

I choose the latter (if I was stuck in that situation).

But again, nobody is right here. We all have to make decisions based on what's best for us, our breeding program, and the particular time of year. That's the game!

Cheers.
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And I agree with you. I would also choose the latter. I still think it's not to late though. I'd find a fat female, and pay the price.

Never meant to cause all this though.

Take Care,

Joel

>>If you had a Spider/Mojave/Clown high end animal that you wanted to use as a stud, and the female was a 12 egg layer, then she'd be worth a TON.
>>
>>Now imagine its nearing the end of January, you have ZERO females to throw at any one of those males and you have an entire 2004 of lost income staring you in the face. What do you do? Save the male out of spite and get ZERO eggs, ZERO babies, ZERO pastel females to hold back to produce supers in 2006 etc etc etc? Or do you buck it and just loan out the male and split whatever the Ball Gods grace you with?
>>
>>I choose the latter (if I was stuck in that situation).
>>
>>But again, nobody is right here. We all have to make decisions based on what's best for us, our breeding program, and the particular time of year. That's the game!
>>
>>Cheers.
>>-----
>>
-----
- Joel Smith

Email Me!

Yes, I agree. I would very much wonder about anyone selling their adult females now though! Height of breeding season! Those females are worth GOLD! But there may be other places (rescues, pet shops, unwanted pets.......ha ha, those three choices are all eerily similar in my mind, ha ha!!).

Also though, him lending the snake doesn't cost anything. Not a red cent (do americans have pennies?). Tough call. I'd just lend him the male if it was mine, and then buy a bunch of LTC or CBB females and raise them up for next year. If it was a spider or mojave or cinniman, then that's different. But I think 50/50 is fair in this particular situation, especially since its the guy with the pastel that has nothing to lose. The guy with the females has to split clutches that would normally be 100% his. He could just walk and the other guy would be left with nothing. And if they other guy has gotten himself into a situation where he has a breedable pastel and nothing to breed it with, then I'd say that he probably doesn't have the wherewithall do acquire breedable females in the middle of January in enough time for the 2004 breeding season. Purely speculation though.

I think all blinky wanted was some opinions and insights into what other people would do in the situation. I hope he gathered enough info for him and his friend to make a decision that won't hinder their partnership or future transactions!

Cheers Joel! No offense taken (hope none given either!)

"I think all blinky wanted was some opinions and insights into what other people would do in the situation. I hope he gathered enough info for him and his friend to make a decision that won't hinder their partnership or future transactions!"

I wasn't the poster, I just seen the post and thought of my current situation. I know for a fact its win/win for both of us. Lender-----Gets pastels when he would have got 0....Lendee (me) get a 2nd male to use ( good for me because I doubt my pastel males ability to service 10-12 girls).

We drew up a contract a few months ago and the borrowed male has been locked up with a few of my girls for over 2 months now.

I do agree 100% with your imput on this matter Jeff....50% of something VS. 100% of nothing.

>>Yes, I agree. I would very much wonder about anyone selling their adult females now though! Height of breeding season! Those females are worth GOLD! But there may be other places (rescues, pet shops, unwanted pets.......ha ha, those three choices are all eerily similar in my mind, ha ha!!).
>>
>>Also though, him lending the snake doesn't cost anything. Not a red cent (do americans have pennies?). Tough call. I'd just lend him the male if it was mine, and then buy a bunch of LTC or CBB females and raise them up for next year. If it was a spider or mojave or cinniman, then that's different. But I think 50/50 is fair in this particular situation, especially since its the guy with the pastel that has nothing to lose. The guy with the females has to split clutches that would normally be 100% his. He could just walk and the other guy would be left with nothing. And if they other guy has gotten himself into a situation where he has a breedable pastel and nothing to breed it with, then I'd say that he probably doesn't have the wherewithall do acquire breedable females in the middle of January in enough time for the 2004 breeding season. Purely speculation though.
>>
>>I think all blinky wanted was some opinions and insights into what other people would do in the situation. I hope he gathered enough info for him and his friend to make a decision that won't hinder their partnership or future transactions!
>>
>>Cheers Joel! No offense taken (hope none given either!)
-----
- Joel Smith

Email Me!

I'm wired so its web-site working time! LOL!

Thanks to everyone who contributed! I didn't mean to start WWIII!

Anyway, I think we all agree a male pastel is more valued than a normal female. The point was brought out of how many times a male can breed in a season, so his value is multiplied by the number of successful breedings. Whereas a female is limited by the number of eggs she produces.

In theory, if you haven't overbreed your males, any additional breedings is beneficial to everyone, except those who believe a "short" (supply) market is a profitable market.

Dont spend the high dollars on male morphs if you dont have anything to breed him to? UNLESS you are willing to work out a breeding loan with someone with his or her normals females.. I know I have well over 100 Ball Pythons and way before I EVER bought my first morph I was collecting normal females. In fact I am STILL looking for normal females that are CBB, This year I ended up a little short to, but my Spider ended up breeding 6 girls for me. Not that I am complaning at all about that But I could of used a few more. I did purchase some more normals from reputable people that trustworthy but trust me I paid ALLOT more $$ for them then if I was to raise up a CBB baby myself. Also if there is anyone out there with CBB females for sale that are above 3000 grams give me a call I want them and will pay for them! As far as Jeff selling normals for a high price to a friend look at the money his friend made from the small 3000 investment. Name any other way to turn 3000 in to 14000 in 4 months. LEGALLY.

Just my thoughts on this

Bryan

www.exoticballpythons.com

219 743 3337

Name any other way to turn 3000 in to 14000 in 4 months. LEGALLY

You HAD to throw the legally in there! I was all set to answer..... heh heh!

With all this money talk, I hope that we all still realize and have the feeling that even with no moolah$$$, we'd still be keeping snakes. Hopefully.

I have an adult female in the 2500g range that i would consider loaning. But the only deal I would make is for a pastel female. Is my female worth 2000, she is to me. I would expect 7-8 eggs so owner of pastel would in theory get more than one pastel. If only one pastel was born I think it belongs to owner of the pastel.I have a pastel but he will not breed untill next year.
I don't think Jeff was that far off on his values of females. Clay