Reptile & Amphibian Forums

broccoli, spinach, red peppers, green peppers, carrots, apple, grapes, green peas, black eyed peas....blended in a cuisinart..i go easy on the spinach and the fruit...an orange slice is also added on the side....is this ok??...please give suggestions

and wheaties

... can't go wrong there! Tee hee... Sorry, I couldn't resist. LOL

Your gutload sounds wonderful! I would vary the veggies, though. The trick is to not always use the same thing from one week to the next.

Thanks for the recipe!

Julie

yeah, i probably should do that...i change the slice on the side from orange to tomato or a lemon...but i should mix the mash up a bit...maybe kale or dandelion???

I don't have all the ingredients handy to compare, but the most respected gutload recipes out there for chams are either the homemade one listed on http://www.adcham.com or the commercially prepared one offered at http://www.herpnutrition.com. The vet who formulated it also has several nutrition articles on the Chameleon News ezine at http://www.chameleonnews.com

susan donaghue's site..i've read it...several times..and everytime i do i get dizzy spells and have to be revived with smelling salts...i leave there more confused than george bush adding 2 2...i'd like to meet the insect that dives under the ocean and eats some seaweed..then flies to china to dig up some ginseng...then stops in at gnc for some for some echinacea (did it have a cold coming on?)...sorry, it sounds more like a witches brew than food for a bug

haha! Funny the way you put it - BUT, some of these ingredients are beneficial in different ways. Echinacea boosts the immune system - we may not think much about crix immune sytems, but it is not going to hurt and very well may benefit our chams (this is coming from someone who makes her own echinacea tincture every fall - and hasn't been sick for years!). Stress takes a major toll on the immune system and we know how easily our little buddies can get stressed. It's no different than adding spirulina and other ingredients. Seaweed is a highly nutritious food.

Just my 2 cents

btw, I will say that I wish Susan's site was easier to read. Too much text and sort of tough to get around. I'm just real visual and need all those graphics to get around in cyber-life!
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Gutloading is a term used to describe the nutritious diet fed to the insects prior to feeding them to your reptile, making the insect more nutritious.

However, this is not usually a wet mixture like you are describing, but rather a dry mixture. We have been making our own gutload for years and we have shared the basic recipe many times. We augment this dry feed by serving fresh chuncks of veggies in addition to the dry mixture.

Broccoli and spinach are not a good idea. Chemicals in these veggies cause binding of calcium - and the reptile gets no benefit - actually it gives a negative effect.

Carrots, yellow squashes, pumpkin; yams; apples, orange and leafy greens are most recommended. Your greens may include kale, dandelion, mustard, bok choi and romaine - but not regular lettuces.

For a person who has only a few chameleons - it may not be cost effective to make your own dry gutload. But if you decide to try, we can share our basic recipe with you - just drop us a line (note: Our vet recommends our recipe too).

Hope this helps,
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thanks...i've heard that about spinach but not broccoli...looks like i have food shopping to do...i personally like the wet mash...i trust it more than commercial diets..they scare me a bit...i haven't checked but my jax doesn't seem to be having any erectile difficulties so i don't need anything with ginseng in it...he remembers that he's insectivorious so i don't need anything with ginko biloba in it...and as for creatine....don't get me started

Well, we don't add those 3 ingredients you referred to. Don't see why any herp would need that - but then I am not a scientist. We add things like coral calcium, spirulina; vitamin B complex and vitamin C complex. These we obtain from the herb store in our area.

Have fun shopping......
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Hi there: So you just put together a mixture of the veggies you listed, and added those other ingredients? Where might I get some of these ingredients? And do you sell the Dry gutload? Thanks-Maggie

>>Hi there: So you just put together a mixture of the veggies you listed, and added those other ingredients? Where might I get some of these ingredients? And do you sell the Dry gutload? Thanks-Maggie

Hi Maggie,

No.. we don't mix a bunch of veggies. We put fresh veggies in with the feeder insects every day. I usually have a couple different veggies on hand - so place a few chunks in a dish. The dry mixture is placed in another dish. That has all the extra goodies in it.

The items we put in the basic gutload are available through pet stores, grocery and health food shops. The ingredients we use in our super gutload - well - you have to find a farm supply where they sell all the different items/grains we use (no corn). We bought 300 pounds last trip. Then we get out the stone grinder and get to work. We add lots of healthfood store items to the mix.

We have a bunch of folks that use our super gutload locally. We have never offered it online or anything - although our vet suggested we produce it commercially for other herpers. He consulted with us when we were constructing our recipe. We are contacting the state university testing lab for the exact analysis and other pertinent labeling information that will be needed.

One thing we do know - the bugs are on it in seconds..!! They love this stuff.
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Hi,

Not to knock Reptayls' recipe or anything, just thought I'd share what we use to gutload our insects, as we feel that it is a great gutload and it is very cheap and easy to make.

Basically, we use a mixture of high-quality dog food, rabbit pellets, skim milk powder and dry baby cereal.

Rabbit pellets are really cheap and are very nutritious, but check the label and only get the good stuff (i.e. not Hartz or other such garbage). Stay away from labels that have corn as the first ingredient listed and stay away from too many ingredients that contain the word "meal" in it (as in corn meal, wheat meal, etc.).

As for the dog food, look for Wellness and Mother Hubbard; they are superior-quality foods that only use organic ingredients and low-temperature processing. Often times, you can get free samples from pet stores and/or feed stores. There are several flavors available so you can vary your mix; variety is key to healthy herps.

We use a coffee grinder to grind the dog food and rabbit pellets into a powder, then mix in the skim milk powder and baby cereal. The bugs love it. Couple this with fresh veggies (dark leafy greens, carrots, etc. as suggested previously) and you're set.

Good luck!

Julie

Julie,

Likewise - our very first gutload included dog food.
However, we did research on what is IN most dog foods and stopped using it.

I haven't given the recipe for our basic gutload yet. It is not too expensive to make, if you don't place a price on grinding.
This recipe was developed after doing more research. In this one we utilize dry iguanna food, koi food, skim milk, baby cereal, and a few other ingredients. The addition of nutmeats attracts the bugs too. Have you ever seen crickets play soccer with a peanut?

Then we consulted with some vets and a microbiologist - our super gutload was developed and we make that now.

For the average cham hobbyist - a more basic recipe will serve well - as long as it is nutritious for the feeder prey.
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Hi,

I understand where you come from with regard to dog food, which is why I only recommend Wellness. They only use real meat (as opposed to meals and byproducts) and high-quality grains and vegetables. Check out their web site and look at the ingredients lists, it's really quite impressive:

http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/dogs/wellness_detail.asp?pCode=dryDogSup5MixChicken

The fact that I can get the stuff for free is an added bonus. Otherwise, it can be a bit expensive to buy (of course -- you get what you pay for!) and you're forced to get a big bag. But if you can get it for free, it's definitely something to look into.

Julie

I use Susan Donoughue (gutloader, your posts were pretty funny - LOL!) or make my own based loosely on AdCham's and Dr. D's, but sometimes a week will go by when I only give them veggies and fruit. It's pretty varied and all organic. Thoughts?

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Hi Lele,

Your gutload sounds great, too. Can't go wrong with S. Donoghue's mixes. I think that as long as there is a lot of variety, a good amount of protein (crix need protein, otherwise they will resort to cannibalism) without too much fat, then you're on the right track.

Julie

Hi,

Just curious as to why you chose to use dry iguana food as opposed to just using rabbit food. After reading the ingredients of most dry iguana pelleted diets, I figured they were just about exactly the same as rabbit pellets, but with a 300% markup in price. Plus the rabbit pellets were usually fresher because of the faster turnaround.

This is just my impression, though. I'm probably wrong and you're more than welcome to correct me! I would really like to know if there is a notable difference between them. (We have iguanas and feed them rabbit pellets with their veggies.)

Thanks!

Julie

Hi Julie,

Yes, there is a reason why we chose iguana food - iguanas are lizards. The lizard's nutritional requirements are slightly different than those of a rabbit. The content of this supplemental food (the dry formula) was designed especially for those requirements.

We do use dried alfalpha (pellets) in our super gutload recipe, as this provides good protein and essential nutrients. However, I would not suggest it as the main ingredient for a well-balanced gutload for lizards.

We have consulted 2 specialty vets and a microbiologist concerning these matters - we feel we are doing all we can to provide nutritious feeder insects to our animals.

Hope this helps,
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