Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 2 baby leopard geckos, one is a patternless, the other is an albino, possibly a hypo tangerine. But they have this dark black dot on their undersides. The first three that we had also had the black dot and they ended up refusing to feed and one of them died. Our new ones are not showing any signs of refusal to feed yet, but they have that mystrious black dot. I did some research on it and i found one possible explination, Fatty Degenerative Liver Disease, which occurs as a black dot on the liver. This looks like what it is, so I took them to the vet, with my research in hand and the vet was stuck on the idea of impaction because that was the only thing that she had ever read about. so she charged my $43.00 for saying that it was impaction, which it clearly is not because they are still deficating normal and are not on sand.
Does anyone know what the black dot is? Am i right about the liver disease?

Anything will help, there are no reptile vets here so I am shooting in the dark everytime i take my critters to one.

Thanks,
Amanda-
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1.0 Uromastyx (Toby)
1.0 Water Dragon (Anubis)
1.0 Golden Gecko (Goldmember)
1.0 Betta (Mr. Van Gogh)
1.0.1 Corn Snake (John Red Corn, Larry)
1.1 Gopher snake (#1, #2)
1.1 Rough Skin Newts
0.0.2 Fancy Comets (Thing 1, Thing 2)

Wow....$43.00 just to find out it's their spleen. Or, that's what I've read and have been told. Perfectly normal.
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Geckos will someday rule the world!

4.7.1 Leopard Geckos
2.1.0 Chihuahuas
2.1.0 Rottweiler Mix
1.0.0 Siamese Cat
1.0.0 Dwarf Hamsters

Josh
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So it's nothing I should worry about? the last one that had it, the black grew to cover almost the whole underside of him and he died.

-Amanda-
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1.0 Uromastyx (Toby)
1.0 Water Dragon (Anubis)
1.0 Golden Gecko (Goldmember)
1.0 Betta (Mr. Van Gogh)
1.0.1 Corn Snake (John Red Corn, Larry)
1.1 Gopher snake (#1, #2)
1.1 Rough Skin Newts
0.0.2 Fancy Comets (Thing 1, Thing 2)

Well...Where did you get these at?
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Geckos will someday rule the world!

4.7.1 Leopard Geckos
2.1.0 Chihuahuas
2.1.0 Rottweiler Mix
1.0.0 Siamese Cat
1.0.0 Dwarf Hamsters

Josh
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Petco, there my problem right there. They probably are infested with parasites.
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1.0 Uromastyx (Toby)
1.0 Water Dragon (Anubis)
1.0 Golden Gecko (Goldmember)
1.0 Betta (Mr. Van Gogh)
1.0.1 Corn Snake (John Red Corn, Larry)
1.1 Gopher snake (#1, #2)
1.1 Rough Skin Newts
0.0.2 Fancy Comets (Thing 1, Thing 2)

It is Cyptro and it is very common in larger Chains of Petstore
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Preston Berry
www.coolgeckos.com
prestonberry@austin.rr.com

stop buying them from Petco and looking for Expo , look for local breeder or order from online. Clean cage very WELL with ammiona ratio of 1:10 or buy new supplies for new Geckos! Might not cytpro due to Largest Chain of Petstore.
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Preston Berry
www.coolgeckos.com
prestonberry@austin.rr.com

I know in humans, a ruptured spleen often leads to uncontrolled internal bleeding.
-Alice

Could be alot of things actually (including the spleen). Fatty degenerative liver disease is kinda rare actually, don't see it too often in geckos (or any animal for that matter).

Is the spot more like a dot on the surface of the skin, or sort of a dark mass underneath the skin?

I know it's costly, but I'd get your leos checked out for crypto (since your previous leos died and had the same symptoms). Crypto spores hang around for a while (sometimes years), and if you didn't do a massive disinfecting using bleach or ammonia, baking/boiling the hides and dishes, etc, the spores could've found their way to your new geckos.

I'm not saying it's definately crypto (since it would mean there's no saving your geckos), but it's a possibility since its symptoms also include dark spots on the belly.

Also make sure what your seeing is not a vein. Maybe a post a pic (pics worth a thousand words).

-Lemur 6

what exactly is crypto? why is it not cureable?

what are other symptoms of it?

Not Cureable, symtoms are stop eating became legtraic.
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Preston Berry
www.coolgeckos.com
prestonberry@austin.rr.com

Crypto is not cureable because no known medication kills the spores effectively without creating a toxic shock to the animal. The spores are a PAIN to kill, you need to either bake them at 500 deg F for 10-15 minutes or use 100% Ammonia. Alcohol, freezing, soap water, and bleach are ineffective in killing the spores.

The day someone finds a cure for crypto will be the dawn of a new age for reptile enthusiasts.

-Lemur 6

Yeah, i'm leaning toward the possibility of Crypto. It is a black spot on the inside of them. My boyfriend works at petco and he keeps getting these loepard geckos that have that weird spot. And i don't believe any heavy disinfecting has gone on in the display at petco sence the shipment of the infected leos. Thank you for the info guys, you just save the leos at Bend Oregon Petco, that display cage will be completely disinfected tomarrow!

-Amanda-
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1.0 Uromastyx (Toby)
1.0 Water Dragon (Anubis)
1.0 Golden Gecko (Goldmember)
1.0 Betta (Mr. Van Gogh)
1.0.1 Corn Snake (John Red Corn, Larry)
1.1 Gopher snake (#1, #2)
1.1 Rough Skin Newts
0.0.2 Fancy Comets (Thing 1, Thing 2)

Well you can't be certain it's crypto without doing an acid fast stain on a fecal and looking for the cysts.

Other symptoms of crypto are: Lethargy, decrease in appetite that progresses to the animal not eating at all in advanced stages, severe weight loss, smelly slimy looking stools, black spots on the belly, and emaciation (dehydration).

Also, just disinfecting won't cut it, every infected animal and possibly infected animal has to be euthanized and their bodies should be incinerated. Cryto is a nasty nasty thing, it's worse than mad cow disease for reptiles. Also, healthy looking animals could be carriers of crypto for years before they die from it (show no symptoms but infect other animals who come into contact with it).

BUT (big but here), you can't be certain unless you do the fecal test for crypto (acid fast stain). It could be some other treatable form of coccidia, and in that case all you'd have to do is feed the geckos some mealworms or waxworms injected full of flagyl and they'd be fine.

The other thing it could be is a fungal infection. This is caused by overly damp tank.

-Lemur 6

Thank you so much for all of your information, I'll have the petco vet run fecal samples A.S.A.P.

-Amanda-
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1.0 Uromastyx (Toby)
1.0 Water Dragon (Anubis)
1.0 Golden Gecko (Goldmember)
1.0 Betta (Mr. Van Gogh)
1.0.1 Corn Snake (John Red Corn, Larry)
1.1 Gopher snake (#1, #2)
1.1 Rough Skin Newts
0.0.2 Fancy Comets (Thing 1, Thing 2)

More questions about crypto because this is the first I have heard of it....

I have a gecko rescue - i mentioned him much earlier in an older post... been to the vet twice. First time he went, he still had two other rescues with him, and the only stool sample I had that was viable was one of a few on the paper towel. At that time, the vet said he didn't find evidence of any parasites... if a vet didn't perform an acid smear test (to specifically detect crypto), would there be any evidence in the stool sample, when viewed under a microscope?

Also, let's say Pablo passes on, let's say he did have crypto - would the 20-gallon terrarium be reusable? If standard disinfectant methods don't work, what will in killing the spores?

Yes, you can see crypto spores under the microscope without smearing, but it's very very hard to since the spores are so small (but if you're vet is good he can probably notice them without staining). Also, if the fecal was very fresh, you can see the adult cryptosporidium protozoans swimming around (and these are much bigger than the spores and easier to see since they move).

Yes, if you use 100% ammonia and thoroughly douse the entire tank with it (use in a very well ventilated area), it will probably kill most of the spores. Afterwards you'll have to rinse it very very well and let it sit for a couple days to get all the ammonia fumes off. Maybe use a blowdryer to speed up the drying process (dryness also kills spores), but be careful since 100% ammonia is very very strong stuff, and if you breathe too much of it in, you'll have health problems yourself. I'm sure there are other ways, but I know this method works pretty well.

-Lemur 6