Reptile & Amphibian Forums

About a week and a half ago my vet diagnosed my beardie with hookworms and coccidia. He administered a dose of panacur for the worms and I have been giving him Albon for the last 5 days. Frodo is about 6 months old, 15 inches in length. Up until a few weeks ago he had been active and eating crickets like no tomorrow. When I moved him to his newer cage things started to change. He went off his feed and had an "episode" which I can't explain. He ate some crickets one day then opened his mouth like he was choking and went limp, closed his eyes. It scared me. I picked him up and then he kind of came to. Later on he threw up. After this I had a fecal done and took him to the vet. He seemed to have been responding fairly well to the medication. Not eating like he has been but eating fairly well though he seems to only want his crickets hand fed. But he has been moving around. Yesterday I fed him his crickets and some silk worms and he seemed to have another of these episodes where he opened his month, closed his eyes and went kind of limp. Later he threw up and has been pretty much been laying around since then. His eyes also seem to be bulging a bit; this was more noticeable last night while he slept. I'm sorry, but this is the best I can describe this "episode". Can anyone tell me if this is could/should I do? He will be going back to the vet in a few days. I am wondering if he isn't getting dehydrated. I have been soaking him regularly and yesterday I did give him some pedialyte and acidophilus shortly after the albon. I do have the temperatures correct 105 basking, 85 cool side and I do provide UVB and dust my crickets with calcium D3.
Again, I apologize for the length of this message.

I have never experienced or heard of such a thing. Therefor I could not give you great advice. What type of calcium and vitamin supplementation routine do you use (brands and frequency)? Do you have a weight on the dragon? And do you know the dosage of the panacur and albon (you said 0.1ml what about concentration)? Just some other info for me or others might need to offer up opinions. What substrate is he on? Did the vet feel for impactions? I really do not know what else to say answer these questions and maybe someone will have an idea. So sorry you are having these issues.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I am using Repcal D3 once a day and Herptivite once a week. Unfortunately I don't know his weight. He'd been doing so well and growing like mad since I got him that I took this type of monitoring for granted. That has changed and I have ordered a digital scale which arrrived today. I will weigh him when I get home tonight. The panacur was given at the Vet's so I don't have the dosage. He's getting his second dose next week (the vet is doing 3 doses, 2 weeks apart) and I will remember to ask. I'm not sure about the concentration on the Albon but I will check the bottle when I get home. The Albon is being administered daily for 10 days. Some help I am!

I had been keeping Frodo on Duck shelf liner. When I found out about the coccidia I removed all his existing furniture and the shelf liner and threw everything out. I have him on paper now and have even created a cardboard basking ledge and cardboard log type hide. Everything gets thrown out at least once a day and replaced with new ones. A pain but well worth it if I can get my guy clean and healthy again.

Even though I thought I am keeping him hydrated, I think dehydration may be involved. My wife called a little while ago. She was very concerned about how listless he has become. She's a nurse and I guess instinct just kicked in. She grabbed a syringe filled it with water and he has been lapping it up, at least 5 cc's worth. She even gave him several cc's of pedialyte. She tells me he has perked up considerably.

One other thing, I know their beards get black although until recently Frodo's never had. He's a hypo pastel and I had heard that sometimes these are harder to breed because their beards may not get dark enough to entice the ladies. Anyway, I've seen his beard darken up considerably lately. What I thought was odd was that in addition to the episode i mentioned, the bottom half of his tail got extremely dark. Is this common?

You are a kind soul for all the time you have taken to read my posts and respond. I truly appreciate your assistance.

Dehydration is an issue. How are you currently providing him hydration? It could be an imbalance of electrolytes (Na, Ca, K, Cl) so the pedialyte is a good thing. Maybe a problem with absorbing calcium. Possibly a internal blockage. The darkening is sort of scary. i would get him to the vet asap. If he does not start to turn around. Let us know about the weight. A chest xray may shed some light on what is going on internally. And no prob on the help that is what we are here for.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I agree with Derek and think another visit to the vet is in order. I am thinking that the dehydration has gotten to a point where he may need subcutaneous fluids. Sometimes if they get too dehydrated it is difficult to get them adequately rehydrated by the oral or cloacal routes. Definately, after parental fluid administration from the vet, I would rec. daily soaks while on the Albon.

What are your temps during treatment? It is typically rec. to increase temperatures to the high end of the optimal range during treatment with any medications. I would rec. bumping warm side temp to 95-98, basking to 110-112 and cool side to 85ish. This will help him metabolize the medications better and digest food better. How big are the crickets he is eating? If he is not feeling well I would rec smaller sized crickets or something easier like 1/2" silkworms. I had an older dragon that had difficulty with 3/4" crickets even though he was an adult and he would close his eyes like that when he was trying to spit one out and he was having a hard time getting it back up. His beard would also get dark and stay dark for a while. He was debilitated due to cancer so I had to make adjustments to his diet, even greens were difficult if not shred very, very small. Is your dragon still defecating regularly? I hope your dragon is feeling better soon.
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Stacey

Stacey:

As I mentioned to Derek, Frodo's condition improved considerably once my wife hydrated him with fluids. He did take quite a bit of water and pedialyte yesterday so the listlessness may very well have been due to dehydration and an electrolyte imbalance. He is going back to the vet early next week and I am going to have the vet go over him thoroughly.
The temps in his cage are pretty much right in the range you mention and he is pooping regularly.
I find your comments about the crickets and the description of what happened with your older dragon most interesting as this sounds like what might have happened. I am very conscious of the size of crickets that I feed Frodo and the first time he had one of these "episodes" the crickets were not larger than the space between his eyes but this group was a weebit bigger than the ones he had been getting (5/8" as opposed to 1/2". I called them the Crickets from Hell and threw them all out after the incident. I am back down to 1/2" crickets. I do also feed him silkies. Thanks for your imput it is appreciated.

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Stacey

Derek:

When I got home yesterday Frodo was much improved. My wife said that the water and pedialyte she gave him really helped and he has perked up considerably. I can't believe I missed it but he must have been very dehydrated and I think you were right on about the electrolyte imbalance. We are going to watch this closely and will continue with the pedialyte and acidophilus. His tail is back to normal color. I weighed him yesterday, 217 grams. He has pooping regularly and was checked by the vet for impaction so I don't think this was the issue. Yesterday, with all the fluids he didn't really eat much but I am hoping that today his appetite will pick up. We'll be heading back to the vet early next week for another round of Panacur and I will be sure to discuss all this with him and have Frodo checked thoroughly. Thanks again!