Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well we made a trip to the vet today. When he first saw him,he asked what my setup was like and said everything sounded good. Then he looked him over and said the bruises under his shell on his underside are because of him walking and his shell being so weak,just walking was bruising him, and suggested I put him on a very soft surface like a bath towel until it heals(which I have done. ). He looked at the stool sample and he said the Hookworms were evident(there were clear strands of worms stickigng out,even I knew what they were). He looked under a microscope and showed me the eggs. He said the entire sample was loaded with them and pinworms eggs. He gave my tort 2 shots. One of calcium,and another of Vitamins A and D3. Doc also gave me some Neocalglutonate to give him orally, one drop every day for a month and every other day after that. He didnt want to worm the tort just yet, he wants him to recover a little first,because worming can do some damage to them,and he cant handle anymore for now. He will stop by and see me next week and give me the Panacur then. He said the reason his shell went bad is because of those fake UVA UVB bulbs they sell now. i have a zoo med super coil,and he said its a common mistake made. He suggested me to get a Mercury Vapor bulb,and when he comes to my work next week he will show me the one to get in a catologue. All in all,im VERY glad i made the visit(even if it did cost me $81). Gina, your tort is from the same clutch as mine and i told my vet that i knew someone with a sibling of my crash's. he told me to tell you to get your tort dewromed ASAP for hookworms and pinworms,which he found in my torts viable stool sample. good luck and thanks for listening everyone!

Also,Doc said to boost his appetite a little to try to feed him some Garden Veggie or Mixed Veggie babyfood. What are your take's on this?

I know no one is readin this but I have to tell someone,because no one else will listen to me babble about my tortoise. I am soo happy to report that today he has opened his eyes on his own,without my help. I just started the Neocal. this morning and i se an improvement already. the vet said in three days you should see a big difference,but its only been about 12 hours thanks for listening!

was it like this one linked below?

if that's not a good bulb, maybe i should be worried...
the bulb i use

Yup, you should ditch that bulb. 3% UVB is too little. I'd look into the mercury vapor bulbs, or at least use a Reptisun 5.0 (but remember it has to be very close to the tortoise to do any good--I think it's 12 inches).
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

the 3% uvb part? what % am i looking for, and what does the reptisun provide?

thanks very much for your reply!

It said 3% on your link, lol. The Reptisun is 5.0, which isn't great, but it's adequate, as long as you remember to change them out about every 6 months. The mercury vapor bulbs are much better, but they're expensive, and also prone to failure (see my post a little farther down). If you'll be able to get your tortoise outside during the summer, that's even better.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

heh, i didn't even read down that far on that link i posted... i was just looking for a picture to show the bulb i'd bought! hehe...

i asked the breeder from whom i got my tort and she says she uses vitalite, but that the reptison was good, too. i think i'll try the reptisun.

i dunno how well-founded this fear may be, but don't those mercury bulbs have some (at least minimul) toxic output?

There is some pro and con information out there about the mercury bulbs as far as UVB exposure goes; if you do a search, I'm sure you'll find some links, or maybe someone here will post some for you. I do see more activity and better appetite with the bulbs over conventional fluorescent UVB lights, and I guess you have to balance that with the potential for harm which may not show up for years down the road. Like I said, I can't wait for spring so I can get these guys outside.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

yep,thats the exact brand of bulb i was using. it did nothing for my animals but make them sick(i have a sick chameleons also) good grief. and to think i spent $17 each on those dammed bulbs! anyways, he didnt give me any eye cream,like the Terramycin you suggested Gina, and hes started to open his eyes on his own,without anything on them,im really glad. so far it looks liek a big turn around in little time,so i think his prognosis looks very good. i am buying a new light bulb immediately. Doc suggested a solution to all my Reptiles who need a Mercury Vapor bulb,without having to spend over $300 on mulitple ones. He said one day,have it on one animal,the next day another,the next day another,and so on until it rotates. in the day they have it they have enough of the vitamins for the short period of the days its not on them,what do you guys think about this?

... for posting your story; without it, i might not have realized that i was using a bad bulb.

I need to warn you, those mercury vapor bulbs are great, but they are really sensitive. The manufacturers say that they need to be kept in one fixture, preferably hanging straight down, and not moved around. Personally, I suspect that they are sensitive to vibration, too, and mine are going out so often because we have wood floors and therefore more vibration than with carpet (my guess, anyway). So if you were planning on moving one bulb from fixture to fixture, that won't work, and even moving a clamp fixture around may not work well, either.

As to your question, I don't know if your herps would get enough UVB on an every-few-days rotation. I wouldn't chance it, myself. Even the mercury vapor bulbs, which are far superior to Reptisun, don't hold a candle to natural sunlight, pardon the pun. I personally can't wait until spring, when I won't have to mess with bulbs.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

...since there's a lot of vibration in my house, plus my tort spends the weekend sometimes with my mom (she loves him!) and of course his bulbs go with.

since i live in georgia, i am *definitely* going to provide an outdoor playpen come warm weather so he can soak up the real thing!

If you live in Georgia, your tortoise will get a lot of time outdoors for at least half the year, so in your case you're probably better off with a Reptisun. I'm in California, so I'm figuring the tortoises will be able to go outside beginning in April, and maybe a few days in March, and can go outdoors daily until sometime in October. I do like the mercury bulbs, but it's really a pain when they fail, and if you'd have to move yours around, I don't think it would be worth it.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.2 Hermann's Tortoises
plus my kids' herps:
0.0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

Hey !!
Where in Georgia do you live? I am in Macon, are there any others here that you know of from GA ?

Shion

i live up around kennesaw, which is north of atlanta.

so far you're the only other georgian i know of here... i'm not overly wild about the hot humid weather here, but my tort will hopefully be, once i've got his playpen made and it's warm enough!

How cold is it there? I'm in North Carolina and mine is outside
24/7/365 and goes outside on his own free will for at least
1/2 hour a day in the winter, plus I feed him outdoors. He only
gets locked into his cottage if it's raining AND very cold, which
isn't that often. Teddy doesn't have any trouble walking around
outside in the cold (40's-50's) for an hour or more as long as it is sunny
and he's busy grazing. Then of course he has access to and uses
his high heat basking area in his house which still has a UV mercury
bulb (250 watts) plus 2 X 150 watt garage bulbs to add heat,
a ceramic heater for night and a hot air blower.

When he was very small I took him outside for excursions 15 min.
as long as it was at least 60 F. and sunny several times a day.
15 min of natural sunlight equals 8 hours under the fakes.

here lately it's been in the 40s-50s, but it was cold than that last week.

i'll try taking him out for little trips when it gets maybe in the upper 60s, but i don't want to risk giving him a chill, since he's only palm-sized! call me a paranoid mom! i'm already planning his outdoor playpen for when it's more warm, though...

i don't think redfoots get big enough to safely try out the snow!

well! that is good news! hopefully crash will start feeling better now. what sort of substrate did you have him on to begin with?

as for julian, he has made a complete 180. i cut up a rather large pile of collards and carrots and he ate the entire pile of collards (but left only the carrots!) lol he's been awake, and active, he'll walk over to his little pond of water and drink from it. of course, i've been using his eye cream twice a day, and his eyes are now shiny and wide open. he either reacted in a great way to the antibiotic shots, OR the eye cream. he still sleeps a lot, but at least now he's eating and more active. He'll be back at the vet sometime next week... i've found a viable sample, and since he ate a ton last night, there will be more to come. so if there are any parasitic things in there, everything will be treated. )

also, this is the light i have.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2373196076&category=1285
can someone tell me if they think this is an acceptable light?
i have this light, AND a heat lamp. his shell has been completely fine, so i'm thinking this is a sufficient UVB source. however after reading about crash's problem, i hope i can avoid the same thing.

-gina

oh... wait. mine says that it's 7% UVB, not 3. I must have a different bulb than the one in the ebay ad. hmm... but is 7% enough?

-gina

I think you need to switch to a mercury balast bulb. I don't
think the 3%, 5% or 7% is good enough. Especially if you live
in a climate where you need this bulb for any length of time.
I'm in NC but my sulcata gets outside almost every single day
in the winter for at least 1/2 hour and I feed him outside
as long as it's not raining. He has access to his cottage where
there is high basking temperatures that he uses it. He lives
outside and can come and go in/out as he pleases (unless it's
raining AND cold then he gets locked in, but it's not too often).
I do NOT place him in water in the winter.
I'm sad reading of yet another hatchling death that was probably
preventable but not by the time the owner realized what was wrong.
At that point it was already too late.
I'm always preaching my advice on hatchling care and it usually
gets ignored in favor of a "care sheet" (made out by people without
sulcatas). so sad, niki

I went to give him his meds this morning and he was gone. he wouldnt move.he isnt hard,but he wont move. hes lifeless. i feel absolutely terrible and cannot stop crying. i feel so bad for the little creature that depended on me and i let him down. i dont think im going to be trying torts again for a while. thank you all for your advice and help,and good luck with the sibling,Gina.

This is, indeed, terrible! I'm so sorry for your loss. You certainly did everything you could for this poor little thing. Sometimes the challenges they present are too much for even the experienced tort keeper. Please don't blame yourself. And I hope you won't give up on tortoises to enjoy as pets. The next one you find can be a completely different experience. If they are healthy to begin with then this kind of problem doesn't often present itself. I, also, have experienced the loss of a purchased ill animal. Seems tortoises don't exhibit and possibly hide illness until they just can't do it any longer and then reversing it can be an impossibility. I hope you will be comforted in knowing that you did your best and that's the best anyone can do.

::shakes head::
i am so sorry. i can't believe this has happened. i can't tell you how upset i feel. my prayers are with you and crash. after i read this post, i rushed upstairs, chopped up plenty of fresh collards and gave them to julian. he had been soaking on his own and had left a surprise for me in his water! that will be going to the vet this week. julian is now chowing down on his pile of collards- he does so once or even twice a day. i've run out of antibiotics, but he will see the vet this week coming up for hopefully his 3rd and last visit for a while. i can't wait to tell her how good he is doing. niki, thank you for your advice on the light. what do you suggest buying for him? I am going to go on monday and pick out a new light. he is in a sweater box about 1.5 feet by 3.5 feet. of course his plastron is only about 1.75 inches but he usues all of that space to roam. i have a heat lamp on one end keeping it at 90* and the other end is about 70* with a little hide house & water in the middle. what uvb lamp would best light his area?

-gina

You are probably not going to find the lights you need
in a pet shop. This is the bulb I use. I've got a 250 watt
but you should get the 160 watt. You can adjust the height
because it projects from much further, but it should be
OK about 18 inches from the substrate - adjust it to
give you a temp in the basking area of 100 air temperature
on the back wall of your basking area and about 110 on the
surface where he would be basking. Lay your thermometers around
and do some experiments. You could probably eliminate the
"heat lamp". as this is a multi purpose bulb.

Here's the toll free number tell them you want a reptile UV
light (should be about 35-45 $). 1-888-574-7014

regular phone is (517) 764-3570

If you do go to the pet shop get a dome with n extension as this
is a large bulb, ask the full spectrum people about domes, I don't know if they sell any. You'll need this to put that big bulb in unless you're suspending it with a clamp. If you're resting it on a screen you'll need the extension.

While at the pet shop make sure to get plenty of cuttlebone if
you don't already have it and scrape that white stuff onto his
food.
Full Spectrum Solutions

np