Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I felt the need to speak up after looking over some of these posts. Pretty much everything on here in regards to Timors declares them as skittish, unsocial, even hostile monitors. However, given the proper situation, it is very possible to have a Timor that is as tame and loveable as a puppy.
I have had 2 Timors, a regular (red phase???) Timor and a Blue Spot. I recently rid myself of the evil blue spot, I think those in particular are harder to tame.
I purchased my red Timor, Zealot, from a local pet store who had bred him themselves (this is a really amazing store, the people actually know what they are doing and their animals are all in great health). Zealot's father is still on the premises and I go visit him often . Zealot was purchased for me as a very surprise birthday gift. Thus, I had to give myself a crash course in caring for these little devils. All I'd had before this was Uromastyx, my boyfriend, however, has had several monitors, mostly large. This Timor was a first for both of us. Zealot was only 8 months old and about 8 inches total length when we brought him home. He IMMEDIATELY displayed an insatiable appetite for crickets and the very occasional bit of dusted canned food. After giving him about 48 hours, we decided to start getting him used to being handled. Aside from him nipping my boyfriend (never me) ONCE in the first couple of days, he has never once opened his mouth to us to bite, hiss, or anything else. At first he was very very squirmy, we had to hold him firmly and for long periods of time. I did this with him for at least 15 minutes at a time 3 times a week or more for several weeks. Zealot is now at least 8 inches snout-vent length (still juvenile, we've only had him since mid january). He very rarely runs away from my hand when I reach in to pick him up. Sometimes he will squirm a bit when he's first held, and if i let him crawl from hand to hand for a minute he settles very quickly. We have built up quite a trust, he occasionally licks my nose. He often falls asleep on me. He is particularly fond of a gentle stoking on his throat while I softly rub my nose on the back of his neck. My boyfriend has yet to build up the nerve to nuzzle Zealot the way that I do, but Zealot has never once been hostile towards any of the dozens of people who have handled him, including my novice mother. If anything, he seems to show patience. I am convinced that he has been possessed by the spirit of an Ackies, or maybe even a dog!

Far be it from me to suggest that all Timors are like this. After the success of Zealot, we decided to pick up another juvenile, this time female, from an Expo. She was in good condition, seemed reasonably calm when we held her. Since she had lived with 4 other monitors at her previous home, we decided to let her stay in Zealot's cage with him, she was slightly larger than him at the time (not much). We monitored them very closely for the first week, they seemed to enjoy each other's company, frequently curling up together in their favorite hiding log. We held the new girl, Taboo, a few times for very brief periods. She was pretty squirmy and nervous. The following week my boyfriend spent a lot of time handling her, and once we had her out of the cage for a few minutes she would settle down. And then it started. She'd be all peaceful and quiet till we went to put her in the cage then... "HISSSSSSSSS.... CHOMP!!!!" right on his finger webbing. But we persisted, and as time went on she only got worse! She refused to eat in front of us aside from maybe 2 or 3 crickets. She was lazy, wouldn't bother to take a cricket unless it crawled right in front of her face. We took her to a vet who said she was fine and in perfectly good health, but she continued to get more and more hostile. She turned into a jumper and nearly got out of the cage on more than one occasion when we went to put food in for them. It was just too much for us. I mean, there's a typical monitor attitude, and then there's Taboo. She was truly a vindictive little [bleep] who became outright clever about fooling us into thinking she was calm just in time to turn around and CHOMP CHOMP.
After 3 months of ownership, we were reluctant to approach the cage except to hold Zealot (who somehow maintained his puppy-disposition through it all, bless his sweet heart). We decided that, should the opportunity arise, we would trade or sell her. At the F.I.R.E. expo we ran across a woman who was selling an adult proven female yellow ackies for a very low price (she was missing a few toes, we could care less). The woman had recently taken up breeding Blue Spots and expressed interest in finding another female. We made a straight trade, our evil vindictive [bleep] for the Ackies. Roxie (our Ackies) is an angel. If anything, even calmer than Zealot (don't worry, haven't tried to nuzzle her yet heh) and a very healthy eater. We are very happy with the arrangement.
The only downside is, though we find it very hard to believe, Zealot has been acting.... I don't know can a lizard be depressed??? For the first few days after Taboo was gone he took to pooping on us (not spraying poop, just dropping a load) and he hardly came out to bask or eat, mostly stayed in his hiding spot. I am very happy to say that he is starting to get back to his old stuff, but only after we promised to find him a new girlfriend.

So now my boyfriend and I are on the hunt for a YOUNG (not hatching, but young) Timor monitor that is NOT NOT NOT A BLUE SPOT or Yellow spot but the regular garden variety reddish Timor monitor. So far we can't find them!! All we saw at the show were the damn spotted ones. If you know somebody who CAPTIVE BREEDS the regular Timors please let us know, Zealot is so lonely!

Emily
npoh.egomantra.com

it sounds like you're keeping your monitors too cool.

You said Taboo was 'lazy' and wouldn't chase crickets.
Zealot 'snoozes' on you.

These are not normal.
In the interest of your animal's health and well-being, what is the temp. gradient in their cage? Can they bask AND hide at the same time?

Yeah, I think the male missed having varanid company. I don't think human company makes the grade with them.

Cheers. D.

I could get a couple more, I didn't know they were social.

Sorry, I hope you understand I am new. I have had my monitors not a year yet. I have neither raised a group, or introduced a group of monitors.

IMO, company is good for them. This is based on what I have *read*, and from watching my male/female pair.

How to get them that company is a good forum thread, (how many, how old, how to introduce them), and I am not qualified to answer that. You should be asking FR, he would know.

Check out Varanus.net for the pic of the two cross males sitting side by side. Pretty animals. No fighting.
Cheers. D.

Hmmm... maybe if Tweek (my timor) had a girlfriend, he'd settle down a bit, you know?

Our first Timor's behavior didn't change much after being exposed to the Blue Spot except that he took some cues from her to start climbing more. They did seem to enjoy basking together.

Timors, no matter how one of a million act are nervous flighty species that prefer to hide, and bite readily when being handled. Because one was not handleable you traded it, why? The attitude that timor had was healthy for the species. I have a large 3+ year old male that I accepted when I got him that he doesnt appreciate handling. Now you may find another but its not the one that yourother timor enjoyed having around. Would you appreciate your boyfriend being forcefully removed and traded for someone else that you dont know or trust? Thats a comparison to live by, the next timor may not get along at all with yours. Ive had several monitors that werent handleable but that didnt cause me to get rid of them. Instead I appreciated the differences in their personalities.

You very nicely said what I was thinking too. D.

Different people become herp lovers for different reasons. I am not a breeder, I do not have these animals here to try and make a profit from them or for them to sit around and glare at me. I became a lizard lover because I think they are amazing, intelligent, beautiful animals. I live in an apartment, so I have stuck with smaller monitors and lizards both for their sake and my own. I have limited space here, and limited funds, so I make the personal choice to fill my cages with animals that can be handled. Most of the lizards we have purchased have had what some would consider "flaws." Zealot is the one exception to the "damaged" lizard rule, as he was a gift from my stepfather.
At no time have I mistreated or not efficiently cared for any of these lizards. I have read up on all the proper heat levels and placement of hide boxes and thermoregulating and diets. I should clear up that Taboo never stopped eating, she just didn't eat in front of us like our younger one would. I didn't "give up" this lizard. From the first time I thought about finding her a new home I knew I wouldn't let just anybody take her. The person I found is a BREEDER of Timors, who has a large enclosure where Taboo can live in relatively undisturbed peace with her fellow blue-spots and avoid humans to her heart's content. She doesn't have that option in this apartment, people walk by that cage all the time, and she caused herself plenty of stress because she just couldn't get over it like every other lizard I have has done.
I did NOT give up on Taboo, I found her a place where she would be happier. She was a very beautiful, intelligent lizard, who was just not suited for our lifestyle. You act like I did something selfish. How is it that finding her a happier, healthier situation is selfish on my part? I never would have purchased Taboo if I hadn't had the taming success with Zealot beforehand. This was not an impulse buy.
Shall I go back to the boyfriend allegory? What if my boyfriend and I stopped getting along? Should I force him to stay with me? No. Some reptile lovers are content to just feed their reptiles and let them just sit there. I strongly enjoy the interaction I have with my tamed lizards, and the bond that I am forming with my new Ackie for which I had traded Taboo.

You made some fine points about how you care for your animals there, and I really hope you don't think we think you mistreated or neglected your animal on purpose. No one would say or mean that, as no one here knows you. We assume you wanted the best for the animal as well as yourself.

You did not however, answer what temps you have in your cage. Temps are very often the cause of all kinds of problems. To say, mine are just fine, thank you! and get all huffy doesnt help you or the animals. Do you know what your range is?
D.

the cooler side of the Timor's cage stays between the high 70s and low 80s. The surface temp of the basking spot hovers between 110 and 120, usually closer to the 120 side.

When the animal has the choice to hide and bask less, they act a bit differently. Try offering a lower cool end temp of around 70-75 to offer more choices.

i guess it all comes down to whose opinions and advice you choose to follow. for example, the temp ranges we set up in this cage are based on the caresheets provided for timors on this very site and from other monitor books. The timor has a wide range of heights to bask from, and he never chooses to get as close to the light as he could where it would be higher than the ground temp. I guess it just varies from animal to animal.

But the only good books avaialbale on monitors are King and Greens books, Daniel Bennetts book on Savannahs (the only book with captive care info you should follow on monitors for now), and Bennetts old book has a wealth of info. Of course the rest of the books out there are recycled 25 year old info.
All monitors are kept in the same temps as far as requirements and give them the choices unless your scared they might use those temps and not be tame anymore. Some people use 110-120 as a basking temp but in my backyard a peice of paving block on a sunny 70 degree day has a surface temp of 120, so whats that surface temp gonnna be in Africa, Asia, or the Middlt east? I know for a fact how hot the Middle east gets in daylight, and N.Africa, the air temp can reach 130 degrees. The higher the basking temp the shorter time they bask and can do more because of that. I was told one time raise the temps of your basking site to 130 and see if your monitor is still tame, I did and he still is today, alot are just undermetabolized and wont run from you as readily. Just a thought try it.

The air temperature underneath his basking light is usually slightly over 100 degrees, and has been that way for quite some time. We actually had taken the temperature that Emily had relayed to you before we upped the wattage on our basking light(being that the temp. gauge we used was borrowed, we have yet to remeasure the actual surface temperature, but since you are so good with numbers, maybe you could tell us). He has been able to bask under cover, and has been doing so since we changed the bulb. The only thing is, we upped the wattage well over a month ago and still have seen no change in his disposition. He maintains his healthy appetite and quite regularly explores his cage. He is not sluggish in any sense of the word.
I would also like to note that I am personally insulted that it has been suggested that we would intentionally provide substandard husbandry for our monitor in an effort to keep him "tame". I have been a varanid enthusiast for many years now. I try and keep as up to date as humanly possible, but what makes my continuing education difficult is the elitist and condescending attitude often exuded by people who are in a position to give extremely good advice. From the way you speak on this message board, you have a lot of experience. You could be in a position to educate amateur hobbyists about the rewards and ramifications of owning monitor lizards in a manner that would help, rather than belittle.

No belittlement just trying to get across info from what was written by your girlfriend and her responces to others. I respond to the info offered. Substandard husbandry is not what I said but low temps, which can be considered so I guess if too low. I suggested higher temps in oder to help. Otherwise I can only go by what is posted because I am not their to see the cage in person. I have several years experience but I am not expert or breeder, just a hobbyist helping.

Their individualities. I have given away a large BT after a bad motorcyle accident when I couldnt take care of her though. I appreciate my timor as he does me, from the other side of the glass, whereas my BT/WT crosses have a much more social attitudes.
I commented on the reason you gave it away because it wasnt tame. If thats your choice then so be it, but I would have stuck with it and then you can learn what the animal and species is really like, not just one unusual individual. Its not about you getting along with the animal its more about the animal choosing a partner that it likes.
The hypothetical example I gave was about you and your boyfriend but you responded as the 2 of you not getting along and the reason to part, yet the example I gave was about whats good for your monitor not for your feelings. If your BF was taken away by force and replaced by someone you didnt know by someone elses choice because they didnt like him and you have to live with him and the 2 of you got along then thats the problem, its called arranged marriages to people.

we did not give the lizard away because it was not tame. We were looking for a better home for it. We had the lizard's best interests in mind. It did not seem fair to keep a lizard that was so skittish around people, especially since her cage was placed in a living area. We gave her to a breeder, someone who has no interest in interacting with her or her new cage mates, which to my former lizard, is probably the best thing for it. We did what we thought was right for our lizard, and if you disagree, sorry to hear about it.

np

Mine? I use one of the temp guns that pro exotics sells.

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