Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm not trying to stir anything up I promise. I'm not talking about jumbo rats with hugh fangs either. I'm feeding ft mice to my corns now. Does anyone throw in a live small mouse every once in a while? After all they are wild animals right? It just seems to me that keeping a little of that wild constricting nature would only be natural for a snake. I would not want to harm any of my snakes, but I just feel they might actually enjoy the hunt every once in a while. This is only a question, please don't hate me forever if you think I'm crazy.
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel

1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 anery
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
1,1 tx rat
4,4 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,0 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,3 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

I don't do it (yet?) and know that the general feeling is that there's always an element of risk involved. Obviously, you would never want to toss one in and walk away. It would be a closely supervised thing. That said...There was a fairly seasoned herper who used to post here who felt that feeding live prey every so often was, indeed, a good idea. He felt that keeping the predatory instincts honed may even come in handy if a snake escaped and was missing for long periods. He stated that HIS escapees usually turned up looking as though they had managed to find a meal or two during their being awol. I'm not saying, "Go for it!" ... but I thought that his perspective was interesting. Duffy

It would be a closely supervised thing. That said...There was a fairly seasoned herper who used to post here who felt that feeding live prey every so often was, indeed, a good idea. He felt that keeping the predatory instincts honed may even come in handy if a snake escaped and was missing for long periods. He stated that HIS escapees usually turned up looking as though they had managed to find a meal or two during their being awol. I'm not saying, "Go for it!" ... but I thought that his perspective was interesting. Duffy

Gonna play devil's advocate with you. 'Closely supervised'...I have yet to meet a person as fast as a mouse if said mouse decided to bite. If we were that fast then why do people get bit by their feeders? And I have had folks say, 'I was right there watching....' when the mouse bit their snake.
As for honed instinct. I feed prekilled or frozen thawed always. So I have three and five year old snakes that have been on this for years. Yet when they escape (and my everglades rat boy seems to at least once a year!)they manage to come back fatter also. I think it is such a hardwired instinct that they aren't gonna forget how to do it.
I personally don't think they 'enjoy' the hunt part either. I think if given a valid choice the snake would scarf up dead mice over chasing down live ones. And I don't mean live ones trapped in a box with them....but say in a small room where the mice can actually get away and the snake has to 'hunt'. So, what is it they are enjoying? I think many snakes hit a live mouse because it is as much a danger to them as a meal.
BTW, to the OP, that infamous pict of the BP that got fatally munched by it's lunch??....done by a mouse. So I wouldn't say mice were less dangerous. They still have teeth.
As to the original question. NO, I don't throw in live now and then....not unless it is prey with it's eyes still closed. I know people who do and I really think it is the owner that is getting the kick out of it, not the snake. Or it is an owner that doesn't have 'the heart' to kill a rodent.
I wouldn't do it....but hey, with my luck I would be at the vet with a snake with it's eye bit or something. Why risk it?
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

I knew I'd hear from you Sonya. Ha Ha All my snakes are on frozen. I know you keep some BP's. When they go off feeding as most of mine do from time to time sometimes a live mouse will jump start them. Is there any thing special you do for problem feeders? Thanks Jim
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1,0 snow
1,0 amel

1,0 aney stripe motley
0,1 normal
0,1 anery
0,1 motley
1,1 oketee
1,1 tx rat
4,4 ball python
1,1 dumerils boa
1,0 columbian red tail boa
1,1 green iguana
1,0 leopard gecko
1,3 dogs
freezer full of mice & rats

>>I knew I'd hear from you Sonya. Ha Ha All my snakes are on frozen. I know you keep some BP's. When they go off feeding as most of mine do from time to time sometimes a live mouse will jump start them. Is there any thing special you do for problem feeders? Thanks Jim

Problem feeding corns or BPs? With BPs I may go to a gerbil or dwarf hamster f/t or sometimes prekilled. But I raise the little monsters so the expense isn't a problem if it takes a bit to wean the snake back to scented and then back to rats. That said...my female BP laid 4 eggs last year, she didn't eat for 8 months and somehow....go figure, she gained weight. Going from 3.5# prebreeding, down to 2.5# after laying and now is 4.25# prebreeding last Dec. Four months of not eating that much.
I have never had good luck feeding live with BPs. If someone gives me a BP that isn't eating and they say it does jump start with a live mouse now and then(and ironically I have a friend with this problem right now and had another last fall) I leave it with a frozen thawed and invariably it eats it. With my WC adult pair the gerbil/ hamster scent kicks them in. But I have resigned to the fact that BPs are incredible at not eating.

Corn problems.....I have only had a couple of hatchlings give me grief about eating. Any adults off feed have been either adults with good weight going into winter and not an issue or, if I really think they need the weight I will offer a 50gram rat pup, usually prekilled. For the babies I let them go for a few weeks and offer whatever it is they took last. If it is say....eating pinkies, then goes off I would try the various 'types' of pinks- f/t, prekilled or live, beheaded f/t or live.
Right now I have a late 2003 hatchling that took a pink for me first thing and then went almost a month. I went to a beheaded, live pink in a deli cup.....yes, blood all over...but the darn snake snarfed it right up. I named her Countess from Erin's suggestion that she could be named after Elizabeth Bathory, who liked to bath in blood. After I got some meals into her and she was taking them out of the deli cup I tried another pink...whole live and f/t.....no luck. But she will take prekilled pinks now.....thankfully. So at least we are out of the blood baths.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

I agree with you both in theory and in practice. The only live rodents I have ever offered have been tiny pinks to problem feeders. I thougt that Glen's perspective was an interesting one, and worth sharing. As for being "fast enough" to prevent a snake from being bitten...Again, I could not agree more. That said........If a person does choose to feed adult mice or rats to their snakes, I assume that you would still agree that they should ATTEMPT to supervise as best they can. The bite may still happen, but quick action could prevent more extensive damage. We have all heard stories of folks who toss a rat into a cage and walk away, only to find later that the snake was not the least bit hungry and the rat had been gnawing on the poor thing for quite some time. Survey says: frozen/thawed! Duffy

>>I agree with you both in theory and in practice. The only live rodents I have ever offered have been tiny pinks to problem feeders. I thougt that Glen's perspective was an interesting one, and worth sharing.

Oh, me too, but I don't see the point in endangering a captive animal. It is the whole difference between hunting and shooting animals in cages....only the animals can shoot back.

As for being "fast enough" to prevent a snake from being bitten...Again, I could not agree more. That said........If a person does choose to feed adult mice or rats to their snakes, I assume that you would still agree that they should ATTEMPT to supervise as best they can. The bite may still happen, but quick action could prevent more extensive damage.

DEFINITELY. I guess my cynicism is from working the pet trade where you get people who do just toss in a mouse and leave. People don't realize that that rodent is captive with their pet and likely to defend itself.

We have all heard stories of folks who toss a rat into a cage and walk away, only to find later that the snake was not the least bit hungry and the rat had been gnawing on the poor thing for quite some time.

Survey says: frozen/thawed! Duffy

Thank you Mr. Dawson!
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.