Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I want to equip my bearded dragon and uro's enclosures with stacks, and I was thinking this summer, it would be really cool to try out this method I found on the internet and sort of make a natural looking stack. I'll put a link at the bottom for the kind of idea I'm thinking about using. The idea is basically build a nice stack (that has already been used to determine the temps are good), and then (maybe) put some thin pieces of polyurostene on it to make it more rock like and irregullar, and then coat it in the way described in the link. I was just sitting in my room looking back and forth at the lizard tanks (It would be much less strain on the neck if I had them both in one corner ), and I love the stack idea, and even though I haven't tried it yet, I think the reptiles will too. But I also like to make things look nice and have a natural feel, so I thought of this idea, and maybe I'll try it this summer. Except I'd probably specifically design them for the use. Like for the bearded dragon, I would probably design a corner one the would be almost like a part of the wall, and for the uro it would be more like a standard stack, but with one side flush against the wall.

Just another thing for me to think about it. There's an easy way to tell someone who truely loves his pets from someone who just likes the idea of the pet (the kids that get lizards simply because they think they are cool). The people that truely love their reptiles will sit around for a day thinking about how to improve upon their life. i can't wait to get Sam (the uro) cleared of parasites and what I believe to be a respiratory infection so I can start experimenting with his setup (going to try dirt out this summer...not sure if I could get more than a couple inches in his tank though).
here's the link

I could not agree more with your sentiments on spending time thinking of ways to improve...
This summer I plan on trying to do the same as you but in a slightly different manner.
Since Uros are diggers, and the literature points to the having elaborate tunnel systems of significant length, why not try to create a synthetic tunnel and lair?
Here are the most pressing problems:
Pratical size
Materials(both in terms of weight of construction and harmful components-especially when subjected to intense heat )
Accessability. Certainly foremost in terms of monitoring the uros health-
Thanks for your article. Certainly got the brain thinking again-
Ed

Hey Ed,

In response to this post and your email here are my thoughts. First off, I think the Uro's REALLY like natural dirt. I can't begin to say how happy and natural Nebu has been in his cage. That being said I think we have a difficult problem since we keep Egyptians. If Boulder created a tunnel system as elaborate and long as Nebu's in comparison to his size it would be much longer than 10 feet long, and Nebu seemed like he wanted to dig even more (he was at the bottom of his huge rubbermaid bin). I'm not sure how it would feel to them to have a hole that was not dug themselves...they do not seem to really recognize it as their own. Boulder is constantly trying to dig further into his hide, making one part of his finger nails all worn down. What I want to do for him is create a cage that first has a thin few inch layer of dirt. Then I'm going to fill a 2' wide, 3' long and 6 inch high storage bin with dirt. It has a hinged top. I'm going to cut a hole in the side and start a small cave in the hardened dirt. Hopefully he will recognize this as a good place to dig and make his hole in the bin. Because of his size I think he will create tunnels that will turn out like a maze if viewed from the top with the lid off (since it's only 6 inches high he'd probably not have a "ceiling" on his tunnels if you understand what I'm saying). This way I could monitor how he was doing if he did not come out of his hole for a while. We'll see if it works. I have a suspicion he will start digging elsewhere once he can't dig his hole anymore which could be a problem.

You asked for a little more info on the structure of Nebu's tunnel. It was strange because it spiraled around counterclockwise about three full circles before reaching the bottom. The grade on the tunnel was not very steep and the spiraling could have just been because of the limitation of the rubbermaid bin. It seems logical to make a hole spiraled however as larger predators (such as us) could not stick their hands/feet into the hole to fish them out.

One idea you could do is make your synthetic tunnel system and then fill it with dirt. If you had large pvc pipes say for the tunnels filled with dirt they would naturally dig them out and may have a higher affinity for them as burrows.

Anyway, lets keep brainstorming!

Peter

PS: Don't we all wish we had the space for 10 foot feeding troughs filled with thousands of pounds of dirt...oh well =)

great picture Pete, very prehistoric looking
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Thanks for the reponse.
Took me a while to get it1

I was kicking around the idea of foam urethane plastic after seeing and using one of those funky volcanos with some veild Chameleons some years back. I wanted to test it's heat and uvb resistance and to determine if under such practices(like in aUro enclosure) if it would result in some negative attributes.
I agree with you about dirt-It appears to be the best case material-and to that note I had great success breeding Asian Water dragons in an enclosure with backyard dirt......just not ready to undertake the change yet. There is a construction yard thatI will check out after hiatus. Thanks for the notes on Nebu's tunnels system.
I hoped that there were spiraling tunnels - I can incorporate that into the lack of physical space.Vertical as opposed to horizontal. My idea was to build a mold of Urethane tunnel, place it in the enclosure and pack it with a dirt mixture- expos a small opening that would encourage the uro to dig the rest out.
The hot ticket would be to hinge the tunnel so that access could be made....still kicking the ideas around....
One note on the mosture content of Nebu's enclosure - Really keep an eye out for tail rot- one of my egyptian's had it on the tip of his tail-not a problem but - it took a while to heal-
Good luck and continued success with building the ideal urohome
Thanks for the info-
Ed

The San Diego zoo had a neat Uro exterior enclosure that was just that - a big planted hill(grasses and stuff). There was obviously some tunnel network and of course a protective wall surrounding the entire "hill"-sad thing was none of the occcupants were out! i think they were ornates and they shared the enclosure with sungazers....

yikes, I cannot type.....

That set up on that site is great! I love the display case idea and lighting. I too will see about trying the fake rocks.
Thanks for sharing that and let us see pictures when you get yours done.
Tammy

PS. I too sit and think for hours and sometimes days about the lizards and their setups...as well as the dogs and other animals-it's part of caring about your pets.

Mine is still a work in progress.

I actually have the screen top gone and for the time being I have tin foil over the top with gaps where the lights are. One light is clamped to the side of the tank and my basking light is on a metal lamp stand (origianly priced at $46 and I got it for $11). Can't beat that deal! I wish I would have bought the other one they had.
I plan to add more dirt but I want to wait till I can find actual dirt instead of using "Forest Bed". As it is this Uro has pirked up 110%. If I dig around in her dirt she will run over to see what I am getting and help me dig. Can't tell me she doesn't love her dirt mixture.
On the bottom of the tank I lined it with tile flooring. It absorbs the heat and I think it looks nice-can't really see it well though.
Anyway..just thought I would share.

what are your temps in that setup? daytime highs and lows, including basking spot? nighttime drop, the coldest point?

i ask because visually i see worries

i see you are using a "dirtish" substrate, but the heat and lights are hard to make out. the substrate looks moist, but i don't "see" enough heat. ya know?

i would definitely suggest a larger, wider basking spot, perhaps consider using the basking stacks.

anyway, the "fluffy" dirt worries me because the whole point behind the success of our setup (moister substrates and all) is proper temps and basking access. if the animal is in a moist substrate, but with less than ideal heating, i think that could definitely cause a problem.

i could be completely wrong (maybe it is a dry fluff ), because i am only judging visually, so i am hoping everything is great, but just from experience, and seeing what i see in that picture, i worry that it is TOO moist, with NOT ENOUGH basking area, and NOT HIGH ENOUGH heat.

any feedback?

boy, i hope this post made a little bit of sense!
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Your correct with your worries Robyn. At the time when I took that picture the set up was not complete. I took that picture right after I put the dirt in and living in Alaska I did not have access to a chemical free dirt-no one carries it, I looked long and hard. So...I used Forest Bed, which is a finer dirt then I want and you have to add water to it to expand it. I mixed it with sand and vermiculite. My lamps were not set right at all. That picture was taken the night I set that up, the following morning I purchased a lamp stand where I could lower my lighting down to get a more percise temp and it is adjustable so as the heat flux's my lamps can adjust to compensate. The dirt is mostly dry now and very warm. I can lift it and sift it and I can feel just a slight dampness to it. I am using a digital outdoor themometor and I am getting a reading of 130 on my basking and on my cooler side (it's near a window)-ranges from 79-85. Oh one thing else that is different in that photo is my hot lamp was a 75w rep heat light-which came with the lizard and I purchased an indoor 90w halogen. As well I replaced the 40w blach heat bulb with a 60w.
I very much appreciate you jumping in and asking and making points. If you see anything in this post that isn't right please let me know. I do know that 120 is the "ideal" temp for the basking spot but I wanted mine a tad higher to compensate for using a digital themometer and by touch it just feels right. Oh, one more thing I changed...there was a heatrock in the setup and I took that out and I placed a heatpad on the bottom of the tank-it is covered by a piece of tile so it takes the bite off the heat incase the Uro digs down to the bottom of the tank-(the heat pad is outside the tank) I measure the temp with a probe from my themometer at it read 85 degrees.
I think the swollen feet may be due from the heatrock-when I took it out it was so hot I couldn't hold it. The Uro's swollen feet just looked burned- I could be off on that but I it makes you wonder.
Anyhow, this is a long enough. Thanks again for posting to me.
Tammy

Those temps I posted were the highs and I didn't meantion ambient temps.

The air temp in the tank warm side 87-92, cool side 70-86(that is near the window and that measure from close to the window all the way to about center of tank I have a blanket that covers that end of the tank to keep the bite (it's about -25 right now) (Fairbanks hit down to -50 lastnight)

My basking spot does drop to 123 degrees (being the lowest so far) At night the warm side of the tank drops to 75 if I turn off the light so I haven't been turning it off but she buries herself in the dirt and under her log to get sleep where there is the undertank heating pad.Do you think I can turn the lamp off at night?
I plan to build a higher basking spot but with a 40gal long I have to be careful of short sides. I am looking for a larger tank now.

Ok- I "think" I covered it all.

Tammy

here is a wider view of my setup..now remember. It is not what I would have done had I bought my Uro...I am trying to work with what I have. I know some of you will view this as good enough and some will say it isn't even close. It will have to work for the time being until I can find a bigger tanks-I really want one of those display cases...I saved that site!

so did you rescue it, adopt it, or did some one just drop it on you? I wasn't planning on getting a uro, or any more reptiles (my parents said the bearded dragon was enough...one reptile is never enough ), but I "rescued" this one, so I had to make do with what I have (and the money I have). Right now mine is in the same EXACT tank you have. Same size, same brown trim, except I got mine used, so the little center cross bar is all melted from some idiot putting a hot lamp on it. It was cheap though. So now I'm not sure about what I'm going to do for a permanent enclosure. Sure, this tank would work fine, and he seems to like it better than the 10 gallon he was in before...the dirty, disgusting 10 gallon with no lights that would make melissa kaplan crap her pants.

I want to try the dirt out, and I might this summer. Right now he's on paper towels until I can get things cleared up (I need to get a fecal in to check for parasites, that will be either tomorrow or tuesday). I want to try out a bunch of things that they have been toying with over at pro exotics, right now I'm a little worried about if the dirt will make the tank seem too dark, and if it will create too much humidity. I think he's already got a respiratory infection as it is that I have to get cleared up.

If you get a chance to try out that fake rock thing before I do, let me know how it turns out.

-ryan

Ryan~
My leo was given to me by a friend who was trying to sell it. When it didn't sell she asked me to just take it off her hands. Well, I had no idea what I was getting into till I picked it up. So, you can say that I rescued it. Not sure I am doing it all right but the fact I am trying my best to provide for it right is better then what it was getting.
Best of luck with you and yours. They are truley fasinating lizards.

>>At night the warm side of the tank drops to 75 if I turn off the light so I haven't been turning it off but she buries herself in the dirt and under her log to get sleep where there is the undertank heating pad.Do you think I can turn the lamp off at night?

Tammy-

Yes, you can and should turn the light off at night. They need the cooler night temps to rest and recharge. Good night temps are mid 60s to mid 70s. Some go even cooler. If the temps are too high all the time, the constant stress will eventually make them susceptible to disease and parasites.

I'm glad you got rid of the heat rock! Heat rock = disaster. I hope her feet improve now. Poor thing looks uncomfortable.
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Torey
1.1 Uromastyx Geyri (Joe and Arthur)
1.1 Anolis Carolinensis (Bowser and Leeloo)
1.0 Betta Splendens (Mr. Miagi)
1.1 Felis Domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)

I let my temps drop cooler in the leo tanks at night but I haven't entirely read up on Uro's and don't know what areas they even come from so I was hesitant to let the temps drop too much. My leo's don't have 120 basking spots.
I appreciate the information. I will turn that hot lamp off at night then to let her sleep.
Again, Thanks

the block of "stuff" that expands when you wet it is usually coconut husk, isn't it? it might be labeled something different, but it sure looks like bed-a-beast to me in the pics, and that stuff doesn't work well at all. it has long grain, fluffy properties, and doesn't act like dirt at all.

i would consider changing it, and using topsoil as the base of your mix. you can get a bag of topsoil lots of places.

and for a hidespot, i didn't see one. i saw a "bridge" but no hidespot. check out our FAQ on hidespots at our site, there is a link below, and let me know if i am just missing your hidespot in the pics.

burrows or no, i still offer hidespots (good ones) up top so the animals have lots of choices
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

The stuff I bought is called Forest Bed. It says nothing about coconut fibers and does not look like coconut fibers. It is more like a soft planting dirt. I looked ALL over for topsoil in the valley and there is nothing this time of year that does not have plant vitamins in it. I tried, walmart, freds, and the local nurserys we have here-which is only one now cause the other one closed down. If you would package some of yours up I would be happy to buy from you
Trust me I searched long and hard. The only other stuff I can find is calci sand. I thought this stuff would be better then chunks of coconut and crushed walnut shells it was on.

There is a hide. It is under the bridge and under the dirt. In one photo the Uro was actually inside it. Trust me- I raise Leo's-I would never not offer a hide. I am in the process of making a new hide for it. I will take a picture of my Leo's hides and you can see how I make them. Kind of ugly but cheaper than what you can buy in Alaska. For a fake rock hide that is actually even too small for a Uro, you are looking at around $30 and up.

Serioulsy about the dirt. You might want to consider marketing it. I would really consider buying from you if you would be willing to ship it.
Tammy

Robyn, Upon closer examination to this Forest Bed I do see "fibers" in it that would comparable to coconut fibers. How bad is this?
Again, I do not have access to dirt. I can possibley try to find some in Anchorage but that could be at least a week before I can get in there. It is that or newspapers. What do you think???
Tammy

bed a beast (coconut fibers) is available under a number of labels. it looks like you have it from your picture, but i can't tell for sure.

as for the dirt. surely you have a Home Depot, or Loews, or even Fred Meyer...

just get the "cleanest" topsoil you can find, with the least amount of additives. we used a bag labeled "Super Soil" for a while, and it worked great, it was just what i picked up at the store (and used as part of the larger mix).
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I checked with our local Fred's and they don't have plain dirt that doesn't have the plant foods in it. We have a Home Depot but it is about 70 miles from me and I don't have the proper transportation. If it isn't local, I can't get it right now unless I order it and have it delivered that is why I went with the Forest Bed.
I know I need "real" dirt but in my situation at the moment it isn't happening...trust me...I spent an entire day looking. This is part of living in Alaska.

I would never have purchased a lizard without the proper set but this one was thrown my way, I couldn't possibly leave the Uro in the substrate it was on. As I stated before, it is this, plain calci sand, or newspaper for the time being until someone gets dirt without the plant food or I can find my way to Anchorage on a weekend.

Thanks for your reply.
Tammy

Great Idea!! My only concern about the sandstone design would be the chemical makeup of the plastics you are talking about.

My Mali loves to scratch the heck out of everything in his enclosure and I would worry about him scratching pieces of the plastic away from the faux rocks. Are these plastics biologically safe for consumption? Right now I use the real thing which makes his enclosure very heavy and next to immpossible to move. The faux rocks would be great if they are tough enough to resist the scratching and burrowing attempts.

I bought a wire rack setup from home depot and have my creatures diplayed on the shelves($19.00).
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BigMac
1.0 Mali Uro - Tank
1.0 Leo - Doobie
0.1 Chacoan Monkey Frog - Pilar
1.0 Corn Snake - Muka
0.0.1 Ball Python - Monty

all of these different "new" ideas need practice to put into place. stick with just plain stacks, and learn (and understand) how the animals make use of them, how they manipulate the temps, how many you need, etc, before spending any time making something fancy, and invariably different.

you can look at plain paneling for a good two months, it won't kill ya, and at the end of six months, after you have toyed with 4 different incarnations, you will be better prepared to make something prettier and more custom
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles