Reptile & Amphibian Forums

peruvian or columbians crossed with a hog island boa? I have a buddy that has either peru or col crosses with a hogg. gonna get to see them tomorrow and get pics. he says they are smoking hot! he is not a novice and i will pin him down on the cross more. he says they are washed out like a hogg with laddertails. any comments or input will be appreciated. pics tomorrow hopefully.
thanks for your time on this one!
james c.
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

It all depends where you place hypos...colombian or central american, but I'm sure Dave and the others got normals in the litter along with the hypo's which were nice! Maybe they'll put some pics up for you. It's been a while since anyone has come to think of it. Take care!

Paul

this was either a peruvian x hogg cross or a reg columbian x hogg. not a hypo.??? he is bringing one over so i can take pics as well as some pics on a disk he has of the others he produced.
thanks paul for the input.
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

If he bred a hypo colombian to a hog island, he should have produced normal colombian/hog crosses and hypo colombian/hog crosses. So, the normals from that breeding should give you some idea of the potential. LOL, I'm not even sure what my point is I'm so tired right now-Flaunt them pics when you have them!!! Talk to you later, take care!

Paul

Well some were like the ones on this pic. Some were almost black! The black ones, most of em got almost pastel looking with red saddles!
The one in the pic, Dad was a dark Hypo, This years Dad (I hope) is a F 3 Gee line Salmon.
I have never breed a Hog to any other boa...except a Hypo/ Salmon......Alot of people loved em,Alot hated them. I LOVE em personally.
Dave @ East TN Reptiles

Atleast the ones I have seen. Did you have any normal in the litter? I was thinking you did, and that would give him an idea of the cross outside of hypos. Of course, I could be wrong in which case, once again nothing is new under the sun-LMAO! Take care!

Paul

I think the hypo hogg crosses are called "sunset" boas. Go to the link and see.
Link

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Greg Holland
G&M HERPS
www.imageevent.com/gmherps
gmherps@sbcglobal.net

If he had been the first person to produce the cross, and then actually to accurately represent what he had produced then I wouldn't probably have negative feelings/opinions regarding the "sunsets"

As far as hypo hogg crosses go I love em..awesome animals..

later
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

I have seen ads posted for them but why would anyone want to breed them together? One would think it would be counter productive, I wouldn't breed a bulldog to a poodle. So why have the equivalent of snake "mutt" by breeding them together. I have seen people breeding bloods with balls but I still don't know why.

Ever wonder what made that Bulldog, or the Poodle....or any of the modern breeds we have today? In fact, every year the AKC is recognizing new breeds. Wonder how many were created using other breeds?

nm

2 3rd!!
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

Okay, do what you will. I think that the pictures of the hypos are pretty snakes but I don't think that you should be breeding them together. Just my opinion!

The "recognized" dog breeds have a history of form and function that they were bred for. There is a reason each breed was line bred, mixed, convoluted, or all together scrapped. Society did not have any inkling as to their responsibility to the "wild-type" of dog nor did they have the access to the information we have now. So, to follow up my subject line, maybe an appropriate comparison is not "apples and door nails", perhaps it's "the invention of the wheel and UFO's"... b/c not only are we comparing two radically different things (if you don't mind the use of the word "thing" ), but we're also comparing two drastically different time periods (inherent in those time periods are mores, education, access to information, etc...).

I could go on, but I feel it'd be redundant.
Respectfully,
Jonathan Brady

nm

i was asking for an educated answer not a wise crack. check out the previous posts and get back to me.
james c.
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

for comments.
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

She's getting BIG. She shed today to...105 day countdown!
Dave @ East TN Reptiles

I did get some normals BUT they were black & most turned pastel looking ( lightened up x 1000 !)with red saddles.
The way "I" look at it.....female Hog....natural Hypo....BCI Salmon F3 Hypo....BCI....= Better than last year! (I hope)
Dave @ East TN Reptiles

... that his breeding policy is a nail in the coffin of the existance of true Hog Island boas.

Some more people acting this way will lead to the final demise of this island boas thanks to people who don't recognize their responsibility as to CITES II animals.

If one wants to sell shoe-laces for business he needs a permit. What a shame that everybody is allowed to breed Cites II animals...
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

If you're going to work w/ endangered species (or even those thought to be extinct in the wild), you should show some responsibility and dedication to that species to ensure that it will continue on for future generations.

Crossbreeding the hogs w/ anything shows your lack of appreciation for the animal, as well as its importance to the hobby which has grown to embrace it.

Jonathan Brady

The practice of cross breeding an animal that is extinct in the wild is ignominious at best and should be looked upon with complete disdain.

Tom Eason

Trust me. EVERYONE & thier children knows Herman & JB dislike Hog Crosses! Just can't understand the repeatively post on how the dislike these animals.
It's more than fine to state your opinion.......just I don't understand after the umteenthtime...why is it necessary ?
Dave

A) I've only breed ONE female Hog,I'm still usung the ONE Hog
B) I advertise them for what they are. ALOT of people have said, " Just seel em as Hypos!" So @ least I'm honest
C) I do NOT import boas out of the wild......I heard you do! That depletes the # of animals out there.How many WC's you own? Me....NONE
D) yes, Hogs are thought to be exstint in the wild, I'm sure my one, maybe two breeding will not endanger ALL the Hogs in captivity
E) Why can't you & JB state your feelings ONE TIME & leave it alone?
F) You & JB are intitled to your opinions...do you two think posting over & over will change my feelings......not.
Thank you two for your replies....AGAIN! How bout in the future when the people who like these animal make a post.......you two DON'T post & let us cross lovers enjoy our "conversations"?
G) Herman you own Hypos..thier crosses! The 1st hypos were BCI to CA boas
Last but NOT least, you've been kicked off Kingsnake more than once..."IF YA DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY..........ECT.
Dave @ East TN Reptiles

i thought both my statement and hermann's were done w/ tact and civility in mind. we did not single any person out in our posts nor did we commit any act of libel against anyone in any way. the most we did is state a fact, it is irresponsible to breed endangered animals w/ anything other than their own particular sub-species.
there are newcomers to this site every day, if you expect us to stay relatively silent on this topic, then you should request to be a moderator on this site and immediately delete any post you see in relation to crosses of any type and especially the support they receive from the peanut gallery. otherwise, each time the subject is brought up, it's fair game. if someone knows nothing at all about boas, and they only see the home team cheering for something, they will more than likely take that side. however, if they know there is an opposition and the reason for that opposition, then they can make an informed decision for themselves.
so, quit yelling and try to come up w/ a logical, informed, competent, and interesting reason in support of crossing boas, especially those that are presumed to be extinct (thereby limiting the availability of the species for the rest of time). and by the way... best of luck w/ that...
respectfully,
jonathan brady

oh, dave, i do actually respect what you've done in terms of marketing your crosses... you have not disguised the name to imply purity or to hype them in a sensationalistic manner, you have labeled them for what they are and i appreciate your honesty and integrity in that facet of your boa endeavors.

.......that animals removed from the wild and bred in captivity should never be released back into wild populations as it disrupts the natural balance or changes natural progression of the species or something along those lines? I know that certain organizations do this with birds, but I think they go through great lengths to provide as natural a habitat for the animals that they reintroduce....including NO human interaction and feeding them natural prey. Are these the same guidelines relative to to the collections of those trying to keep pure species? In addition I am curious how one would know that the animals they are keeping/breeding come from the same precise location from initially imported animals, and does the pairing itself disrupt the natural selection of these animals? I recall a number of years ago a HUGE discussion on this and thought there were many individual published studies representing this side of the coin....is it the opinion of those NOT in favor of cross breeding that their animals will be used to revive the depleted wild populations? Not trying to come off as coy, just curious and would like to hear more views representing the strong opposition.
-Dino

I just get tired of Herman & you saying the same thing over & over. " A word to the wise is sufficient" It's not that I dislike you or Herman...... Most everytime the subject pops up, it's the same thing from you two. I'm sure everyone knows where you & Herman stand on this issue. Dave

Get off the soapbox! You guys are doing nothing to preserve locale specific animals in the wild, and Dave is not affecting locale specific animals in the wild. He is breeding two animals together to get a desirable offspring. Don't you think buying imported animals, thus supplying the demand for exporters does more harm to boas than Dave's breeding? How do you think Hog Island boas became extinct(supposedly) in the wild? It wasn't because Dave or anyone else cross bred them. Maybe it was from the demand of the pet trade????? So, how long before buying your imported surinames before you wipe them out so that you can enjoy them in a cage? Why you guys are preaching to the "peanut gallery", how about showing us some hard data relating to us all the good your doing with your animals. You guys can have your opinion all you want, it doesn't mean Dave's is any less important than your own. So, I have seen pics of your NICE redtails, now lets see your collection of PURE surinames that fall below standard...how many of those redtails do you own? I would bet you try to pick the nicest you can...thus honestly representing the locale-CORRECT???? I don't give two sh#$s either way what you all do with your animals, but get off the guys back already. The global situation does not rest on his shoulders, stop acting like it does. Can't wait to see those pics that honestly represent what we would find in the wild! Take care.

Paul

this is argument is like a case of Herpes , there is no cure. Every once in a while it will flair up again

I agree totally with Paul , most of the locality guys are selective breeding anyway, so what's the difference between that and what Dave or others do? They are all "Man Made Boas"! There is no natural selection , there is no "only the strong survive". What cracks me up is when the locality nuts post photos of animals with zero speckles (that is obviously their favorite) and then complain about the "wild type" in the next post. It just don't make sense , if you want to be realistic we are ALL WRONG for keeping this magnificent creatures locked in plastic cages eating F/T lab rats their entire lives. If you want to complain about Hogs , complaint to the rich guy who bought the island and turned it in to a tourist trap. Give it a rest already, this argument is OLD NEWS! Nobody is wrong or right , the Hogs are already extinct, what are YOU doing to prevent the other boas from following the same path ? Probably nothing!

I doubt anyone would listen to me....lol..

Later
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

nm

JB made such an excellent reply that it's almost nothing left to say.

Almost...

First of all that's interesting news that I own crosses (hypo crosses, as you said). Last I checked I found none in my stock.

Secondly, you said that your one, maybe two breedings would not endanger the hog island boas in captivity.
But what would happen if everybody would think the way you do?

Yes, I own a lot of wildcaught boas. It's the choice between plague and cholera: When they remain in the wild they will be burned by wildfires caused by the natives in order to get more land for farming or housing estates. Or they are deprived of their habitats by greedy companies who cut down everything for mining or for getting wood. So my guilty conscience is limited in this case.

I have been kicked off Kingsnake.com more than once? Wrong again. A long absence does not mean I have been kicked off. Sometimes I have other things to do than to clear up the newcomers here that it is wrong to meddle with endangered animals.

Just leave them alone and breed your Jungle Boas. By the way, I am still searching for something special in these animal... To me they are looking like normal crosses with colombian blood in their veins. Nothing more and nothing left.

Maybe I should sell some of my colombians as jungle boas? Any business advice in this matter would be appreciated.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

Herman, how many times over the years have me and you been stomped on concerning this topic?? Plenty of times. As this hobby continues to grow, the problem will keep getting worse. Most of you Europeans do it right. Most of you guys put a value on a snake that goes much further than just; " How clean it is or how thin the damn saddles are! " We use to have more breeders like that over here, but they are becoming a ( DIEING BREED. ) If people want to breed Surinames to Guyanas ( that is one thing ) they are the same species, but cross breeding Island boas is just wrong. Years ago, the B.C.C breeders were the ones keeping the market going and getting good prices for their animals ( regardless of its physical characteristics ) and then the first mutations and morphs started showing up and people seen that they could take an B.C.I. and breed it easier for the mutations and sell it for more than the True Red Tail breeders and the same with crossbreeds. It is sad that our society has become so Image Based. We want something that pleases the eye. Do we post photos of animals on here to show our appreciation of the animals beauty ( REGARDLESS OF HOW THIN OR THICK ITS SADDLES ARE AND HOW CLEAN ) or is it to have our EGOS STROKED and say ( without saying ) look at what I have got and you wish you had!One day, everything will look the same and nothing will be worth two dollars. Man, I have made every mistake in the book over the years; " I have killed animals out of stupidity, I have bred them for the wrong reasons and yes have even pissed off some people with a bad deal here and there. Sooner are later though, we have to take a reality check on why we REALLY are doing this and grow up. Why dont we all go out next week and buy the ugliest, most thick saddled and dark boa we can find and give it a good home and treat it like our PRIZED STOCK?? Let me guess; " It is not worth nothing in the market. " To heck with the market, most of us have real jobs and do this for a hobby anyway.............Good Day......John Johnson