Reptile & Amphibian Forums

and thought of posting this one. May not be a leucistic as in recessive gene, but some leucistic southern pines can fit the definition as in phenotype.

Terry Parks

Beautiful!

If that's not a "standard" recessive leucistic gene, then what is it???

Judy
-----
1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

The leucistic southern pine in the pic was coined "leucistic" because it comes close to the definition of leucistic which would be an all white patternless snake with black/dark blue eyes. Stephen Fowler, John Cherry, KJ and several others have discussed the leucistic sothern pine and can better explain it. Stephen Fowler explains the genes in leucistic southern pines as possibly the combinaton of patternless/axanthic/hypomelanistic. I've read where hypomelanistic patternless southern pines were selectively bred for lightness in color until you get almost a white southern pine with black eyes. As you can see in the pic I posted, the snake is not completely white. It has a yellow tint to it. The southern pines were coined Leucistic because it would command more at a table at a show or on a website. I guess you could follow along those lines and call them leucistic southern pines, I just don't want them confused with the recessive gene that is in a lecisitic Texas rat snake. Like the one in this post.

Terry Parks

I've heard they aren't truley leucistic...but...I had a pair that were every bit as white as the Leucistic TX rats. They were from Mark Bell's bloodline.

A friend of mine still has one of the babies they produced...
I'll try to get a picture posted...

Mark Bell's bloodline did have some very white southern pines. I read on previous discussions on this forum that they were the result of slective breeding of patternless southern pines.
A couple excerpts from Stephen Fowler's posts on this forum:

August 23, 2001 at 16:55:04: "For the record & contrary to some postings on this forum, what we call leucistic pines were not developed by hybridization but by selective breeding of patternless pines by a guy named Carl Stalnaker"

March 21, 2002 at 10:50:22: "A guy named Carlton Stalnaker bred Mark Bell patternless southern pines for years, selecting the lightest progeny each time. Out of these choices the hypomelanistic patternless pine evolved. Mark Bell who also developed his line of "leucistics" from similar choices named the line "leucistic" for marketing purposes. Carlton in particular does not like the term "leucistic" for obvious reasons."

I look forward to a picture if you get one Dean. All the leucistic southern pines I've seen have had some amount of yellow or pink tint to them. Some of it developed after several years as adults.

Terry Parks

Aahhhhh, you did that on purpose, didn't you? I still want one of those babies, if you get some this season. (Or next) And I just might be able to talk hubby into it by then.

Thanks for the explanation!

Judy
-----
1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

I don't have the adults any more. Believe it or not, I could not sell the babies. When I was breeding them, it was in the mid 90's before this site was hot...and before internet sales were a major deal.

I produced babies 2 years in a row, and dumped them for like $50 a piece to a wholesaler b/c I could sit at the Columbus show all day and not sell any.

Pits would NOT sell back then. I produced s. pines, n. pines, black pines, and leucistic southerns...and sold most of them for about $25 ea just to get rid of the "mouths to feed"!

But...as I said, I do have a freind who still has one of their offspring...I'll see if I can get a pic up...

>>Aahhhhh, you did that on purpose, didn't you? I still want one of those babies, if you get some this season. (Or next) And I just might be able to talk hubby into it by then.
>>
>>Thanks for the explanation!
>>
>>Judy
>>-----
>>1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

I'm just trying to post a few conveniently placed pics for you to wear your husband down. LOL. Trust me, others do this to me now and then. They can post a few pics of a snake I'm interested in and I get all ate up over it.

Terry Parks

>>and thought of posting this one. May not be a leucistic as in recessive gene, but some leucistic southern pines can fit the definition as in phenotype.
>>
>>Terry Parks
>>
-----
Gregg F.

www.greggsrb.com

Thanks Gregg. It's not in the collection anylonger, but I saw the pic and wanted to post it again. How's things going in the Basement?

Terry Parks

>>>>and thought of posting this one. May not be a leucistic as in recessive gene, but some leucistic southern pines can fit the definition as in phenotype.
>>>>
>>>>Terry Parks
>>>>
>>-----
>>Gregg F.
>>
>>www.greggsrb.com