Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw on the classifieds today that Rob @ RK is selling a group of 1.5 yellow-bellied ball pythons (http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=183508). One of the BP's I picked up last weekend has a distinctly yellow belly, almost identical to the ones in his photos. We bought it because it was a poss het pied, but I'm wondering if anyone has proven out the yellow belly trait and what the value of such is. I searched for relevant messages but couldn't find any. Any thoughts?

The Yellowbelly Ball Python is a proven Dominant trait...when you breed a yellowbely to a normal you get you get half yellowbellies and half normals.....just like with pastels.

Jared Horenstein

>>The Yellowbelly Ball Python is a proven Dominant trait...when you breed a yellowbely to a normal you get you get half yellowbellies and half normals.....just like with pastels.
>>
>>Jared Horenstein

Thanks, Jared. So is this considered just a normal variation, such as number of breaks in dorsal line or spotted vs. clean bellies, or is this something to seek to reproduce? Obviously we want to breed him anyway, or we wouldn't have bought a poss het pied, but this wasn't something we were looking for in particular.

Yellowbellies are distinctly different. THey have very irregulay ventral marking along each side of ther bellies aswell as lots of blushing like pastels..

Jared

>>Yellowbellies are distinctly different. THey have very irregulay ventral marking along each side of ther bellies aswell as lots of blushing like pastels..
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>>Jared

Thanks, Jared. Ours is getting ready to shed so now isn't the best time to take a photo of him, but I'll take one in a few days and put it up to see what y'all think.

As Jared stated the Yellow Belly is a proven mutation. These animals are very similar to the Proven Yellow Belly Mutation but slightly different. That is the reason I was holding them back. I believe they will prove out to be something but with Genetics there is no way on knowing until you breed to find out. The prices on true Yellow Bellies are substantially higher than my price on this group for each animal. I would still love to keep these guys myself and try and prove them out but I have other projects that I need to work on first so that is why I have them up for sale but if they don't sell them I will just try and prove them out myself.
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Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.oldworldchameleons.com
www.ballpythonmorphs.net

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Signature edited to remove advertising comments.

Edited on January 25, 2004 at 18:29:17 by phwyvern.

Thanks, Rob. I wasn't questioning your animals, just curious as I hadn't seen any yellow bellied balls advertised as such, though I've now found a few mentions of them elsewhere, including discussion as to whether they may indicate het for various things. The bp that we bought had a 1.0 sibling next to it that also had the yellow belly, but did not have the black lines along the belly. I am thinking that at least two of the same clutch displaying it increases the odds of its being heritable, but if it is it's just a bonus of sorts as I mentioned we bought it for het pied.

>>As Jared stated the Yellow Belly is a proven mutation. These animals are very similar to the Proven Yellow Belly Mutation but slightly different. That is the reason I was holding them back. I believe they will prove out to be something but with Genetics there is no way on knowing until you breed to find out. The prices on true Yellow Bellies are substantially higher than my price on this group for each animal. I would still love to keep these guys myself and try and prove them out but I have other projects that I need to work on first so that is why I have them up for sale but if they don't sell them I will just try and prove them out myself.
>>-----
>>Rob Trenor
>>RK Reptiles
>>www.rkreptiles.com
>>www.oldworldchameleons.com
>>www.ballpythonmorphs.net
>>
>>Your source for Quality Import and Captive Born
>>Chameleons from around the World
>>
>>Please read our entire terms for purchase on our website
>>We accept online credit card payments through PAYPAL
>>Please click below to make a payment.
>>https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=sales@rkreptiles.com

The thing about the yellow bellied balls is that there is rumored to be a co-dominant ball python where ONE of the traits of the hets is that they have yellow bellys. Allegedly, those particular yellow bellys produce a homozygous form resulting in the ivory balls that the snakekeeper is producing (although I have not actually seen anything in print from the Sutherlands confirming this). This rumor seems to have given license to every hack in the buisness to comb through their copious stores of imported animals searching for anything with a yellow belly and selling it for an insanely high price. Now, before I hear all the whiners telling me that they can sell their animals for any price that they want to, I say that I agree with them. You can sell any animal for any price that you choose and let the buyer beware.

If I wanted to I could go door to door selling pencils for 20 bucks each too. If I'm a good enough salesman and can make those pencils sound like something really grand and make you believe that you can write a million dollar best seller with these pencils I'll probably sell quite a few. It doesn't detract from the fact that they're just pencils. You just paid a lot more for them then you needed to.

Likewise with ball pythons. I don't believe that most imported (unproven) BP's are worth more then about $30-50 bucks (on the high end) with REALLY nice ones worth about $150-$200 (maybe) The REALLY exceptional ones coming out of Africa go straight to the major breeders for many thousands of dollars and wouldn't be appearing here in the classifieds.

In my opinion, anyone selling a few imported animals for a couple of thousand bucks based on a trait like having a yellowish colored belly is trying to take advantage of you and I would caution you to steer clear of any deal like that.

VOT

What difference should it make. I do not post often here because I find much of it childish and stupid. However that said NO ONE should be allowed to post without disclosing whom they are. Just my thoughts on this matter. I think that it would make for a much more respective and possibly productive board.

Douglas Beard

===== Not afraid to tell you who I am=======

I also think that no one should be allowed to sell animals on Kingsnake without a "REAL" verifiable name and phone number, we can afford to loose the posers.

I rather enjoy my anonymity. But quite frankly if I were to post my name, my address and a picture you would still say 'Who?' You still wouldn't really know who I was. I find it funny myself that some people feel they need a name to identify someone here when whats actually important is the message rather then the messenger. If you agree with me, fine. If you don't thats fine too. After all, on THIS forum we're exchanging ideas not money.

VoiceOfTruth

(but you can call me VOT for short)

Who the hell said all the cool morphs go to major breeders? I know several several people who are not considered MAJOR breeders but rather small time breeders witha few cool snakes that have built their collection over a tiny bit of time. I have seen these people get some of the craziest weirdest snakes to come in. Also exporters email EVERYONE in their address book with pics of african stuff they recently acquire. So its usually first come first serve. Also they will have a baby pied over there and ask 20k. No one is going to pay 20k nowadays for a BABY pied. So it sits and sits and FINALLY they practicaly give it away to an importer or small time breeder compared to the original price.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

>>In my opinion, anyone selling a few imported animals for a couple of thousand bucks based on a trait like having a yellowish colored belly is trying to take advantage of you and I would caution you to steer clear of any deal like that.
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>>VOT

I appreciate the warning. What happened here, though, is that I bought a poss het pied from a small but reputable breeder who's been in the business a decade or so. He made no mention of the yellow bellies on the snake I bought or its clutch sib at all, though he did mention the one I got had cleaner belly lines than the other. He was not jacking up the price based on the yellow belly at all, and I feel I got a good deal on a healthy cbb '03 bp with a decent chance of being het pied.

I was simply wondering if the yellow belly was indicative of anything, if I should mention that to potential buyers if it shows up in any offspring, and if it affected the value of the snake or its offspring in any way.

VOT,

It is always nice to see someone who does not have the conviction to back their statements with a valid name as in your post. The exporters over in Africa contact many importers and not just the BIG breeders. As a matter of fact alot of the new morphs that the Big breeders get are purchased through other importers as the importer purchased the snake first.
The Yellow Belly Trait is not a brand new thing and has actually been known for a couple of years now. I agree that there are some people out there that are trying to sell plain animal as something they are not but this does not hold true for all. Personally I have sold quite a few animals in the `03 season that most would feel they are nothing more than a normal animal but yet the customers (some were BIG Name Breeders) who purchased them felt they were well worth the prices I had on them. These animals that I had advertised were not being sold as definite Yellow Bellies but that they were very similar and who knows they could prove out to be something but they will need to be bred to find out. The customer that purchased them (yes they sold yesterday within hours of the ad being placed) came and looked at them in person and felt they were well worth the price I had on them. As a matter of fact we both agreed to a partial cash and partial trade for another proven morph Ball. So not everything that YOU feel is only worth $20 is really only worth that little. This year and next year you and others like yourself that have doubts in everything you see will have a rude awakening. There are going to be so many new morphs proven out this year and next (and I am not talking about by me, even though I will be proving out my own line of Pastels) everyone like yourself will be doing a little more thinking about things you have said in the past.
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Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.oldworldchameleons.com
www.ballpythonmorphs.net

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Signature edited to remove advertising comments.

Edited on January 25, 2004 at 18:26:17 by phwyvern.

Hi Rob (it thats your REAL name, (sorry just kidding)) I know you have 'nice' animals for sale, I know you treat your imports when they come in, you give them good care and make sure they are feeding well before selling them and you are also a very good salesman. But that doesn't hide the fact that your prices are high. Sometimes VERY high. It's true that some of the balls that you sell may prove out to be something special. But I'm also confident that MOST will not turn out to be anything other then very nice looking normal ball pythons... real genetic mutations simply are not THAT common. What you are selling is a gamble... And as most gamblers know, the house never loses. It just happens that your margin is a good bit higher then most of the others out there. I'm glad you sold your yellow bellies and that the customer is satisfied, there is nothing better then a deal where everyone is happy. But will he stay happy? Could you maybe talk to him and let us know what he winds up with when he breeds them? Of course it'll be years from now before he finds out if he hit the jackpot or got stuck. Still, it'd be interesting to find out.

Keep us all informed when these wonderful morphs start proving out. But also please keep us informed of the ones that don't.

VOT.