Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been reading alot about this on different sites! How do people feel this affects dragons? Or does it? I mean I have always given mine crickets. Does anyone know the growth rate comparision between cricket eaters and non cricket eaters? I was just curious, I don't plan on doing it, but I was wondering what people knew of this!! Thanks!!

D

I would say that they grow slower at first, but seem to have a sudden "growth spurt" at around 12 weeks of age. I have some sub adults and adults here that were raised crix free and they are all "average" in size and in great health.
I always tell people about the one female I bought who just wouldn't grow..... After I switched her to a crix free diet, she jumped in length and weight. She was 15" at 14 months and less than 250 grams. She is now 18 months old and is 17" and almost 400 grams! Just timing? Don't know for sure, but she is still gaining weight nicely and will be breeding for the first time this year! I have had less problems with parasites, etc also.

Several people on this board have babies of mine that were raised crix free and I am sure if you post asking them for their opinions, they would be more than happy to.

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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

I have an 'almost' 4 month old that i've had since he was 6 wks old. I got him from a pet store (sorry!) and he's been health and happy since i've had him. He's 11.5". He's been raised on crickets and has started eating veggies/greens and pellets. Well, I ran out of crickets the other day and decided that he would be ok for a day without them.... so now that he's completely cleaning out his veggie dish and has gone 1.5 days without crickets,,,, can i give up on the crickets?? or should I pick up some and continue with the crickets?? I don't want to 'deprive' him of anything. I've been dusting his salad with supplements too.
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Eddie)
2.0.0 Dogs (Black German Shepherd-Nicholas, Black Lab-Cooper)
1.1.0 Budgies (Kia and Simon)
0.0.1 ?Fiddler Crab (Crusty)
0.0.25 Various Fishies (Freshwater)
2.1.0 Hubby and kids (Boy and a Girl)

You are depriving him of protein, the people that raise them cricket free use pellet food instead of crickets. As juviniles they cannot survive on just veggies.
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I do use the pellets too
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Eddie)
2.0.0 Dogs (Black German Shepherd-Nicholas, Black Lab-Cooper)
1.1.0 Budgies (Kia and Simon)
0.0.1 ?Fiddler Crab (Crusty)
0.0.25 Various Fishies (Freshwater)
2.1.0 Hubby and kids (Boy and a Girl)

>>You are depriving him of protein, the people that raise them cricket free use pellet food instead of crickets. As juviniles they cannot survive on just veggies.
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>>

She is using pellets..... She said rep cal pellets
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

>>I would say that they grow slower at first, but seem to have a sudden "growth spurt" at around 12 weeks of age. I have some sub adults and adults here that were raised crix free and they are all "average" in size and in great health.

I have a couple of questions. Trying to learn not to insult, so please don't take it that way.
Have you raised and bred beardies that were totally bug free? Meaning, have you had reproductive success and second or third generation raised bug free?
I am really doubting that a pellet can give them total nutrition. Maybe I am a cynic due to my vets aversion to canned reptile foods. He sees turtles, tortoises and iguanas A LOT, with nutritional deficiencies from being raised on pellets all their lives. The shelf life of that sort of food is not great. After time it is like feeding flavored cardboard.
The other thing is....WHY? For the money savings? By crix free I take it you mean only treat bugs now and then if at all- so, bug free. Why not feed roaches? Our beardies don't do crix but they get roaches, so, same difference without the raising crix troubles.
The other thought for me is that if someone came to me and said that their pets were raised on such and such and they only grew 'average' and 'slowly' I would be wondering how great that is for them. See what I mean?
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

speaking for myself, this past season, I was feeding 26,000 crix a week so pellets saved me a bunch of money. I cut my crix down to 18,000 and fed a lot of pellets. some of my beardies actually put on more weight with pellets. I also feed roaches but its hard to raise enough for a staple diet of them. When I had a 20 gal tank of them it wasn't so bad but with 20 40gal tubs, if you miss a cleaning the stink can hurt.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

>>I have a couple of questions. Trying to learn not to insult, so please don't take it that way.
>>Have you raised and bred beardies that were totally bug free? Meaning, have you had reproductive success and second or third generation raised bug free?
>> I am really doubting that a pellet can give them total nutrition. Maybe I am a cynic due to my vets aversion to canned reptile foods. He sees turtles, tortoises and iguanas A LOT, with nutritional deficiencies from being raised on pellets all their lives. The shelf life of that sort of food is not great. After time it is like feeding flavored cardboard.
>> The other thing is....WHY? For the money savings? By crix free I take it you mean only treat bugs now and then if at all- so, bug free. Why not feed roaches? Our beardies don't do crix but they get roaches, so, same difference without the raising crix troubles.
>> The other thought for me is that if someone came to me and said that their pets were raised on such and such and they only grew 'average' and 'slowly' I would be wondering how great that is for them. See what I mean?
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>>Sonya
>>
>>Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

Ok, first... I am not offended at all, but some of what I said was taken slightly out of context.
None of my beardies are 100% "bug" free. I have and do use super worms and silk worms as occasional treats. Reproductive success would count such as where my females average laying 3 clutches from one breeding with all eggs being a nice solid white (no clear spots) and having 100% hatch with a total 99% success and thrive rate.
Pellets (Rep cal) do contain a lot of what a beardie needs, this is then supplemented with the veggies and extra calcium and vitamins. Rep cal themselves have raised dragons and bred dragons that are being fed a veg / pellet diet only with great success. Not all pellets are created equal... some are better nutritionally than others.
As to your question of Why? Simple.... my 6 year old daughter has a severe phobia when it comes to crickets. To the point of stripping down naked, screaming and running around the house thinking crickets are all over her, etc. It is NOTHING to do with cutting costs or saving money. Roaches we did try, but I could not get used to them and my husband simply hated the idea of having roaches in the house at all (Living in Florida we have enough bugs to contend with).
Now to the part that was taken out of context..... I said slow at FIRST, not forever. I also said "average" size, but average could be anything from 16" to 20". I have adults here that were raised this way and they vary in length from 17" - 20" and weights vary from 360 grams upwards over 500 grams.

This way works for me and my dragons...... to each his (or her) own!
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Lisa
100% cricket free babies!
www.beginnersbasics.com

Sonya,
I'm not sure how many generations Lisa has raised in this manner, but I know the Vandiver's (anther breeder) have raised several this way. The rep-cal pellets were formulated to be a complete food by a veterinarian who's lifes work is reptile nutrition. What alot of people don't get is that nutrients are nutrients...it does not matter if the protien is from a cricket or a pellet, they both contain amino acids that the dragon can use. I think slower groth rates can be attributed to less calories being consumed...slower growth is not always equal an unhealthy dragon.
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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me

>>Sonya,
>>I'm not sure how many generations Lisa has raised in this manner, but I know the Vandiver's (anther breeder) have raised several this way. The rep-cal pellets were formulated to be a complete food by a veterinarian who's lifes work is reptile nutrition. What alot of people don't get is that nutrients are nutrients...it does not matter if the protien is from a cricket or a pellet, they both contain amino acids that the dragon can use. I think slower groth rates can be attributed to less calories being consumed...slower growth is not always equal an unhealthy dragon.
>>-----
>>Bill DiFabio
>>Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
>>Email Me

Thanks Bill and others who did respond. My curiosity was mostly raised by the 'bug free' idea of an insect eater. And the fact that we seem to try to go to a 'convenience' food that may or may not be best for the animals.....just for us. Slower growth isn't necessarily bad, nor weight gain good. I guess I will be interested to see how it goes in a few more years of breeding on that diet. As I said, I have seen the disasterous looking igs and turtles raised on canned foods.I see many people entering the hobby and some think the pets are great....but gee, do they have to eat bugs/mice/fish. To me this is like getting a horse and complaining that it eats hay....can't it eat cardboard, since it is cheaper. See where I am going?
Hopefully these pellets have expiration dates. That was a peeve with the canned ig and turtle foods too.......shelf life.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

Lisa (BeginnersBasics) is probably the expert for this here but I'll do what I can to answer. I use RepCal juvie pellet as a staple and then suplement feed supers, roaches, waxworms, pinkies (during gravid and after delivery)and I still use some crickets (mainly on newborn) and of course salads. If you feed straight repcal without the other growth rates are slower but they will catch up, with supplementing I see little to no measurable difference in development and my food bill was cut by half.

Sean
Heart Mountain Herps

>>Lisa (BeginnersBasics) is probably the expert for this here but I'll do what I can to answer.
>>
>>Sean
>>Heart Mountain Herps

LOL Expert .... I don't feel it, but Thanks anyway

Ok, my answer to Lola44 is this....

If your dragon is eating the way you say it is and clearing out it's bowl with veg and rep cal, then I would say yes you can cut out the crix if you wanted to. I use silkworms as a treat every few days, but other than that my dragons are on a veg / pellet diet.

Hope this helped answer your question
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

ok, he didn't eat the two blueberries i topped his salad with but they were the ONLY thing left in the dish so do i dare open the can of worms about supplementing?? If he's getting salad (collard/kale with squash -forget the blueberry topper) and soaked juvi bearded dragon pellets from Rep-cal,, so i still sprinkle the calcium with D3 on his salad daily? and Herptivite one day a week? (thats how i was dusting the crickets)
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Eddie)
2.0.0 Dogs (Black German Shepherd-Nicholas, Black Lab-Cooper)
1.1.0 Budgies (Kia and Simon)
0.0.1 ?Fiddler Crab (Crusty)
0.0.25 Various Fishies (Freshwater)
2.1.0 Hubby and kids (Boy and a Girl)

Dusting with calcium w/ d3 is a good idea, you might want to watch the kale though. If i remember right it will inhibit calcium absorbsion (brocoli does the same thing).

If he's getting salad and soaked juvi bearded dragon pellets from Rep-cal,so i still sprinkle the calcium with D3 on his salad daily? and Herptivite one day a week? (thats how i was dusting the crickets)

Rep cal contains vitamins and calcium with D3 so you could actually cut that back to dusting his salad 3 times per week and the multi vitamin once a week.

Since I make one HUGE salad each week, I dust it ALL the same day. So basically my dragons get a little calcium with D3 on their salad daily. I then add the multi vitamin once a week.

I am now also trying out the T rex line of beardie supps. (complete food veggie maintenance formula) This is supposed to be a daily supp and well within safe levels of everything.
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

yahoo!!! no more crickets!!! too bad he had to go 'cold turkey' but i'm not opposed to silkies as treats (just not for a week or so,, that way he won't get confused---is that even possible?) Thank you sooo much for the info,,,, I'll cut back on the calcium/D3 to 3 times a week.
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Eddie)
2.0.0 Dogs (Black German Shepherd-Nicholas, Black Lab-Cooper)
1.1.0 Budgies (Kia and Simon)
0.0.1 ?Fiddler Crab (Crusty)
0.0.25 Various Fishies (Freshwater)
2.1.0 Hubby and kids (Boy and a Girl)

>>yahoo!!! no more crickets!!! too bad he had to go 'cold turkey' but i'm not opposed to silkies as treats (just not for a week or so,, that way he won't get confused---is that even possible?) Thank you sooo much for the info,,,, I'll cut back on the calcium/D3 to 3 times a week.
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>>0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Eddie)
>>2.0.0 Dogs (Black German Shepherd-Nicholas, Black Lab-Cooper)
>>1.1.0 Budgies (Kia and Simon)
>>0.0.1 ?Fiddler Crab (Crusty)
>>0.0.25 Various Fishies (Freshwater)
>>2.1.0 Hubby and kids (Boy and a Girl)
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

I have a cricket-free beardie. She seems very healthy though I am still new to this. At 4 weeks she was 4and 1/4 inches and now at now just over 8 weeks old she ia about 6 and 1/2 inches. Though she has never seen a cricket she has started on silkworms and the occasional wax worm because I love hand feeding her. She is quite happy with or without any.

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0.0.1 Bearded Dragons-Jessie
1.0 Geo 4yr orange munchkin
0.2 Dogs- Wendy 7yr Lab/Tori 4 yr Boxer
3.1 Kids plus Hubby

She has always been on rep-cal pellets and greens
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragons-Jessie
1.0 Geo 4yr orange munchkin
0.2 Dogs- Wendy 7yr Lab/Tori 4 yr Boxer
3.1 Kids plus Hubby