Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I emailed him and this is what I said:
Hi. This is my first year breeding leopard geckos, and I am getting ready to build a rack. In order to do this, I tried to find out what size bin is required for what number of animals. I went to your website, and saw your breeder housing. It looked a little small to me, so I asked in the leopard gecko forum in kingsnake if it was all right to put 1.5 in a 32 qt Sterilite. This seemed to cause a small riot. Many said that this was way to small. Now, I wasn't trying to prove you wrong or get you in trouble. In fact, I was hoping you were/ are right about the housing, since it would mean less space, which means less money. I figured that since many consider you the leopard gecko pioneer, you know "your ass from first base" about leopard geckos, and that if I did what you do I'd be all right. So what I'm really trying to ask is, can I really keep 1.5 in a 32 qt year round without problems? Is there anything I'm not understanding? I'll clean it out frequently and watch for any signs of stress, or course. I hope your right, because that would really free up some space for me, and I could start more breeding groups. Thanks a lot for your time.
Gibby Wright
gwright86@attbi.com
And he replied:
you read my page

And I emailed back and said:
So you are saying I can keep 1.5 in a 32 QT year round without problems?

And he replied:
That's what I said
I don't say things unless they are true.

So I guess I'm going to try housing 1.5 in a 32 QT.

first off, i wish you luck and success in your first year of breeding leopard geckos.

i would like to point out a couple of things for you to think about. yes, tremper is one of the pioneers and many of his husbandry techniques are now considered "standards" and the norm.

HOWEVER, think about this. how many leopard gecko breeders do u have???

compare that to mr. tremper. he has literally thousands...THOUSANDS. i would expect anyone with that many animals to test and experiment with the boundaries of any species for their own economical benefit. heck, for him the difference between not being able to house one extra gecko per cage can mean building an entire new complex the size of a safeway to house several hundred animals.

to be honest, i routinely house my breeders (1.3 to 1.5) in 32 qt boxes and i have been during so for the past several years. however, there are several things that i may do differently than other breeders (mainly the forementioned one) to make life "more comfortable" for my breeders. i always remove the male after i know he has successfully bred with all the females and they are gravid.

however, probably the most noticeable differences is that I CLEAN THE CAGES MORE OFTEN THAN HE DOES. i spot clean 2-3x a week and do an entire cage cleaning once every 7-10 days. now to some people, that may still not be frequent/clean enough but it is what works for me- all my geckos are housed in my bedroom/living room and i have no problems with any smell.

i do understand that tremper has several thousand animals and only a limited number of hours per day, but come on! hire some people if help is needed! letting fecal matter pile up in the cage like that is just straight digesting!

why do u think leopard geckos in the wild use a seperate area for their "bathroom purposes". because THEY ARE CLEAN ANIMALS. if they are willing to walk over to the next pile of rocks in the wild to do their thing, we should at least have the courtesy in the captivity to keep their cages somewhat clean! heck if we all were locked up in prison, we COULD live an okay life with our own fecal matter piled up next to us- but i'ld RATHER NOT!

yeah yeah, i've heard it all..."scent purposes" during the breeding season??? LOL, LOOK AT THE PICTURE!
that's probably the poorest excuse i have ever heard! so if feces increase "scenting", then leave a couple of pieces, nobody said to leave an entire three weeks worth! (that's how much it looks like to me in the picture). oh yeah, the water dish is placed off the ground "so that calcium powder won't get kicked in"? LOL you mean so that the water doesn't get contaminated by the leopard gecko shoulder-height pile of fecal matter!

okay that's enough, i'll stop now. you get my point. ALWAYS question anything that doesn't seem logical and do research. if your research has any doubts or doesn't seem right, then try it out yourself and learn from your own experiences.

i'll end my rabblings with a final word to sum everything up:

so sure, in my opinion 1.4 or 1.5 adult leopard geckos CAN be housed in a 32qt blanket box. but it doesn't mean they HAVE to be.

if u don't have hundreds or thousands of leopard geckos, then consider yourself as having a luxury. WHY? because u can spend MORE TIME, MORE EFFORT, and MORE SPACE to create a more spacious, spotless, clean environment for your animals!

peace
-SFgeckos

np

lol we must have been typing at the same time with the same thoughts. (My other post below).

You also allowed to keep hens in cages laying eggs so small they can't stand up. Or pigs in such a small breeding space that the mother normally crushed at least 1-2 of her offspring.

Guess what I'm trying to get at is 1.5 in that small a container, might be fine by some people. I like the pets I have to live in comfort. Have room and try to reproduce some kind of natural feel for them. They are not domestic pets like dogs and cats.

When I read his page and read "Using newspaper or nothing but the plain plastic bottom allows them to properly use the heat being delivered through the cage floor. Heating in this manner is the best method in my experience." I didn't think thats cool good I idea. I just thought "F£$K" thats one tight a$$ed gimp." The reason he doesn't use substrate is because its more un-needed hassle and cost.

Anyways that my view of that page with its Ad popups, credit card pictures all over the place. Everything seems geared to SELL SELL SELL. "Heck they are breeders they are there to make money." I hear you say. Well why don't I get that factory farmed feel when looking at most other Gecko breaders pages? To me that place is about cranking out as many leopard geckos as possible.

As I said these are my views I maybe wrong. Heck I live in the UK, I'm never going to buy from him.. but if I had the choice I still wouldn't.