Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been doing shows for about 6 years now. More and more, I am seeing so many shows which have deteriorated into nothing more than kiddie petting zoos.

These shows have become a weekend outing for families to bring their small children to see reptiles. These people are not serious herpers, and for the most part, have little or no interest in reptiles. They don't buy anything. Meanwhile, the vendors have to put up with the adults' stupid questions and the kids'annoying pleas to hold a snake.

The show promotors need to stop advertising at schools and direct their advertising to the serious reptile people. They need to stop having gimmicks such as face-painting, balloons and free admission to Scouts--which attracts the families and not the serious herpers. They need to increase admission prices and eliminate the half-price admission for children. If the promotors do not change the way they run the shows, they will put themselves out of business because the serious herp people will stay away, and the disgusted vendors will not return.

I am all for children being introduced to reptiles, but a show where vendors are trying to make money is not the appropriate venue to do it.

I disagree. I have 4 children, and it was by my son's request that we purchased our first snake, after months of research. If there weren't 1/2 price admissions for my children, I wouldn't go to the Expos. I cannot afford paying 6 admissions AND purchasing an animal. I would just order on line and pay for the shipping.
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1.1 Ball Python 0.0.1 corn snake 1.0 Bearded Dragon
0.0.2 fish 1.2 cats 3.1 kids 1.0 husband and now...
0.0.1 Pink Zebra Beauty Tarantula
0.2 Solomon Island Boas

I have bought MOST of my snakes at the All Ohio Reptile Show, and I am very glad that my 2 sons get in for a lower fare. There have been days when I would not have gone if they were not with me. Actually, the price of the Ohio show is very reasonable....Maybe if they jacked it up a bit I would have to decide if I am "serious" or not........
I think that people of ALL ages need to be encouraged to learn more about reptiles, and there is no better place than the shows. A very good friend of mine is a breeder/dealer, and he thinks that educating the kids is a huge part of his gig...and he ENJOYS it! But, he has 2 sons of his own, and he hasn't burned out yet. Sorry if the kiddies trouble you. THEY are your future customers, and the future of this fine hobby. Hope you feel better soon.
Duffy

I have two kids that love to atend the shows with me.All the venders seem to enjoy letting the kids hold there snakes and ask about them.If you do not like it maybe you should stay home and and deal online.If not leave the kids alone and stop being an old fart.
Chris Schott

"whine, whine, sniff, sniff! Quit your whining already.
Sounds to me like you dont have any children.
Even more it sounds as if you might be a child.
If you want children to pay full price, why dont you stand at the door and make up the price difference for them.
After all you are a "serious herper" right?
You are probably one of the rude smucks that dont even want to talk to a child at an expo table. You are the kind of jerk that I would not buy anything from and me and my children would just walk away from your booth and make fun of you for being a jerk.
I know a place where you can buy herps without children, or petting zoos, etc. Its right there at your computer you miserable little cute and friendly troll.
PS - BITE ME!

Yep, I totally agree - I was just at 2 shows - both were packed.
The best is when young couples arrive with strollers, blocking the aisles, and yes hundreds of young children, with parents who have no intention of buying any herps!!! Thousands of people, and no one is buying! Go figure! Young kids going up to tables asking the vendors if they can 'hold that snake!'. Oh man!!!
I really don't think Herp shows are the place for children. Parents need to get a babysister and leave the kids at home!!!

Why do you think they call them "Shows"?
If you don't want to let kids hold your snakes...that's cool.
It's OK to say, "Sorry, if I let everyone who wanted to just hold the snakes hold 'em...they'd get too stressed out"
That's fine...do a little educating. But if you can no longer handle the crowds...stay home. I think you and "what's his face" up top there think that "serious herpers" = Someone with money that they are ready to spend. If the little kid in the baby carriage had a hundred dollar bill to get rid of...That would be a serious herper to you all. Good luck with it! Duffy

I'll have to disagree with him as well. It seems reasonable for one to conclude that the primary benefit of reptile shows is to educate the general public by teaching tolerance for the captive maintenance of reptiles. Reptile shows do this by giving the public the opportunity to see first hand how beautiful these animals can be... and children are the most important individuals in attendance. Consider that most captive breeders of reptiles and reptile educators were introduced to these animals at a very young age. Many children attending these shows today will become active in the reptile market of the future. I understand the perspective that some vendors at these shows may have. However, internet sales, retail outlets, and other venues are available which are specifically designed only for commercial purposes.

P.S. A "serious herper" is one whose primary motivation for activity in the reptile industry is his/her fascination with reptiles and love for his/her animals. The "serious herper" emphasizes education above all else.

I don't have anything against children in general and I don't have a problem with the SERIOUS herpers bringing their kids to the shows. But even they need to leave the baby strollers at home.

I attend the show in columbus regularly. I sometimes bring my 2 sons. I have 11 snakes, but have only been keeping snakes for 2 years. I sometimes buy a snake. I almost ALWAYS buy frozen rodents. Am I serious enough for you? What's the cutoff point?
How can a "non-serious" herper BECOME serious if s/he does not do things like attend the shows. Am I MORE serious (in your humble opinion) when my pockets are crammed full of money? If I only have enough for some mice and maybe a normal corn, am I only "sorta serious"????
And...I strongly disagree that the shows are not a good place for kids to learn. OK, I'm talking about well-behaved, well-supervised kids, maybe(which mine are, thank you very much!) That any better? Some of these kids are, indeed, the SERIOUS HERPERS of the VERY NEAR FUTURE. Think about it.

I have been keeping reptiles for over 10 years and currently have a collection of about 30 snakes (and 1 turtle). I have bred snakes in my early years in the hobby. I also spend lots of time in tick infested woods to get pictures of elusive wild herps in the spring/summer. AND I have been told by some that I am not 'serious' enough...LOL

Anyway, when I questioned the value of certain ball python morphs, I was told flat out that a 'serious' herper is not one that occasionally buys in the $100/price range BUT rather in the $10,000 price range.....LOL.....SO YES, you do need to have green flowing out of your pockets endlessley to be considered a 'serious' herper anymore.

I think many people see a new morph or a rare herp as a way to exploit and greedily gain as much money as possible. A few exceptions, as always, to that statement. But I think you'll find that some people in the business end of it, mostly run it as a loss AND do so b/c they enjoy the hobby OR have to find ways to compete with 'basement' breeders OR brokers (which I think is horrible but its becoming more common in order for some to turn a profit).

Many that no longer attend shows, its not b/c of children but for other reasons such as stricter laws and fear of their herps getting sick from others. I'd say if kids are a problem at herp shows, its only a small one and not a great big deal. I would suggest drafting some guidelines or rules for 'children under a certain age' and make a petition, signed by all other vendors, and present to the promotors for a possible change in the way the system is managed.
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My Homepage

Serious herpers don't buy animals with mites, ticks, and gaping mouths. Vendors may have a better chance at selling such animals to beginning herpers and children. If you don't allow them to attend, whom will you sell to? Lose the attitude and you may make a sale! Learn to love children; they are the future of your business. Just please don't have any of your own. Society has enough bad parents and the problems they cause to deal with.

I have 3 young kids and they love the shows - Yes they do understand that they cannot hold every animal they see. But it is the exposure to new animals that piques their interest, draws us futher into being "Serious Herpers" and - YES- Spends My Money on this Hobby.

We have only been involved for a year and a half. It was my 4 year old who started the process by asking for a snake as a pet. Now several months, and several shows later we (My Kids, Wife and Myself) are all the happy owners of 4 Corn Snakes, one Brazillian Rainbow Boa, and 2 Tegus.
Who knows what the next show might lead us into?

This is a family interest. An upcoming show becomes an event for us. If the prices were raised, or the kids were not welcomed - we would not be there. Nor would many other of your prospective customers.

I think you have the wrong idea of what draws people to the shows. The promoters seem to be on the right track. My Opinion Only.

BTW - I don't agree with those above who find it necessary to interject the sarcasm and insults. This is a forum for the exchange of ideas and learning - not vitriolic assaults...Again-My Opinion. Thanks for yours.

MAP

Most of the vendors I have met at shows are very willing to spend a few minutes explaining things to children. My child learns so much at shows it is amazing. She comes away with a wealth of information. And yes we do usually buy something (an animal or cage supplies. The people who dont have time to talk to my child (or any child with a geniune interest) dont need my time either.I will move on to another vendor with a better understanding of how to relate to people. Attitude is important.

As co-owner of the NORTH AMERICAN REPTILE BREEDERS CONFERENCE AND TRADE SHOW I think this is a statement that needs to be thought out a bit......not just thrown out. If we only have shows for "serious" herpers you have the same people going to the same shows with the same vendors with the same animals.......which is what many of the shows seem to have become with every other month, week, or day frequency (obvious exageration intended). We promote kids and familys at our shows......as well as attract serious buyers.....ask around to the vendors with high end animals how they do at our shows for proof. I would say we have a high number of families at our shows compared with many of the shows out there and our vendors have done extremely well on average. Some of these "kids" will be the "serious" herpers of the future......whos job is it to educate them? The answer to that is all of us. These "families" that come to the show.......who are they? Maybe a mayor, animal control officer, or just nobody.....but maybe they are going to be the one whos mind is changed on our industry by being at a first rate event with quality animals and then we have changed an outsiders view of us......is that worth your time? I think so! As far as the petting zoo....I think that problem can be solved with simple polite answers such as "Im sorry for the health of the animals we dont allow them to be handled except for purchases" or something to that effect. Any good show will have a blend of high end buyers, seasoned herpers, mid level buyers and in my opinion families and kids....remember we have a very small amount of buyers out there....compared to almost any other hobby/business.....we all need to try and expand our industry at every level. Well thats just my opinion but I think if you look at it we all have to do our part for all levels of the industry to survive.....oops I mean THRIVE!

You love money more than children. Please don't procreate!

Ouch !
But before there were “Reptile Shows” there were ”Pet Shows” and all of them were petting zoos ! Like it or not . At these pet show reptiles were in the corner back next to the bathroom door .You would answer ”No it’s not poisonous” 200 times a day . You could rely on scaring at least 50 people with a baby corn snake. I can go on and on with stories about promoters telling me not to feed the snakes in public if I intended to remain in the show..
My point is it’s better now than years ago. Also I see some of the people I sold a reptile to next to me in reptile shows selling! That is because they got interested in reptiles at a “Pet Show” . I’m not trying to hit you over the head with a “Get over it statement” Rather I would tell you I am glad to see that reptile’s are in the everyday normal peoples homes as pets ! Because we put them there . “We” being the people who truly want to keep them and share them people like you and I . Don’t knock those kids wanting to pet your snake in a deli cup . Smile at them ! Offer to sell them something.

I totally agree with you. Even though I am a Scout i think that the hobby has become too commercialized and I had just attended the White Plains show in New York and the amount of little kids running around was unbelievable. I left without getting what I came for because I was so dissappointed.

I am a parent of 3, and a herper (serious imo)

Anything I say in this is mainly my opinion, as I have built it discussing various things with other serious herpers.

I can see the point of not wanting dozens and dozens of younger kids running around trying to get into things (and yes even the "good" kids can be guilty of this) and then they walk off without making a purchase (this may be shocking, but I bet Ronne, Stone, VPI, Bob Clark etc etc don't go to the shows to become a teacher).

I also see the great good that a show does for the younger/uneducated person who is interested in getting into herps as a pet. (again remember I am a parent, and think shows are great to take the kids to on occasion, but not as a "zoo trip"

I also can see the INTERNET as a great place that these same people who ask the same questions over and over can learn if they took the time to do so. ( I mention this as I noticed a few people bashing the original poster for daring to stick his head into the kiddie playground aka HERP SHOW, instead of sticking to the internet sales)

On a last note, how dare any of you go off on someone for sharing a view on this topic and accusing him of being a troll? And further going on to tell him to never procreate as he obviously would make a bad parent.. That is low class, and shows exactly the kind of person that SHOULDN'T go to a herp show. As I am sure they walk around with the "I paid admission so I am entitled to annoy, harass and hold any of your animals, and not purchase anything, cause by GOD I am entitled to it"

Just my opinion..as stated above.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com
You never experience life until you have kids, then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do