Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, I hate to be a Nazi about this, but the way people misuse the name is really bugging me.

Jackson's Chameleon was discovered by Jackson. Just like Meller discovered Meller's Chameleon, Parson discovered Parson's, etc. So, the animal became known as "Jackson's Chameleon" - the possesive form of Jackson.

There is no such thing as a "Jackson Chameleon". And when you speak of more than one Jackson's Chameleon, you say "Jackson's Chameleons" (or, you I guess one COULD say "Jackson Chameleons".

It is always "Jackson's Chameleon". Think of it this way: Jackson discovered this animal, so in essence it became "his". Hence the possesive form of Jackson in the name - always.

This is wrong too: "Jackson's Chameleon's". Unless, of course the
Jackson's Chameleons have something in their possesion. I think the difference between plural and possesive was discussed in the 4th grade.

I mean no offense by this. I just thought it might help. Sorry to be such a picky freak about it, but I see the name used incorrectly so much I just wanted to clarify for those who might be confused.

Symantics I tell ya. Great you know the rules of grammar in the English language, but don't let these rules get in the way of the message that's being conveyed.
Words were invented to be able to communicate a thought or idea. Too many times I've seen others (not pointing fingers at you) allow these rules of grammar get in the way of what's being communicated. As long as U know whats bein' conveyed, what's the issue?
Just noticed that what I'm saying could be taken like I'm lecturing. I'm not. Tone of this message is (supposed to be) lite and fun. Hope I conveyed it correctly .
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

even though jackson found the chameleon the chameleons doesn't have to have a possive name.... its a jacksons chameleon...you dont normally say "HEy look jackson's chameleon" there is an a in there becuase jacksons doesn't own them they were just given that name for classification reasons propbly becuase the discoverur didn't want to call anything so every one just used his name.

anyways im not sure if this gets what im try to say across but oh welli just think as long as its the same species who cares about the technicallities about the name.

Why did you waste time thinking about that?

Let's (let us) get technical up in diz hizz-ouze!

There are 2 types of Jackson's Chameleons:

1. Chamaeleo (Trioceros) Jacksonii Xantholophus
2. Chamaeleo (Trioceros) Jacksonii Jacksonii

I am very sure that everyone knows that Jacksons Chameleon's references are usually directed at the Xantholophus type as that is the most readily available in the USA. I would have made your post aimed at THAT differentiation that one that harps on the proper grammar and spelling of a common name.

In da net, we have created shorthand and emoticons to help U get da point accross quicker. Jacksons and Jackson's and Jacksons' and Jacksons'es mean the same thing on da net and on this forum. If we were to critique spelling and grammar, Trigger Finger Genius and the rest of us would stop posting.

I kindly suggest you find other things to occupy your brain cycles than Jacksons and Jackson's or start hanging out in the English and Grammar Forums.
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Raf

1.2 Jacksons Adults (Frank, Patty, Lucille)
0.0.1 Jackson's baby (George, R.I.P. 11/17/2003)
1.1 Nosy Be's (Mars and Roja)
1.1 Veiled - No Names Yet
0.1 Adult Sulcatta (POOPIE,I bought it from Victor at Kobey's in SD)
0.0.2 Baby Sulcattas (frick and frack)
1.0 Home's Hingeback Tortoise (SPEEDY, From Victor as well)
1.2 Red ear slider babies (Hingis, Dingis and Dorkus)
0.0.1 3 toed box turtle - No Name Yet
0.0.1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle - No Name Yet
1.0 Red Siberian Husky (Harley)
0.1 Black Lab (Krissy)
0.1 English Bulldog (Alice)
0.1 Blue Merle Great Dane (Wednesday)
Saltwater Fish and Inverts too

...and pretty tight with the witty banter! I just noticed too(from your signature)that you have one truckload amount of animals!! You must have a huge farm!

Say, why were Panther Cham's named Panther's by the way?

Signed-Magster, Magpie, Maggot, Magazine, and Maggie

Hi Magna-Doodle (remember those?)!

Stop coming up with nickanames for yourself!! I'm gonna run out of them if you keep it up!

Congrats on your new cham!! I bet he's awesome!!

Yes, I have a veritable zoo at home. Good thing my wife stays home during the day to care for them all!!!
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Raf

1.2 Jacksons Adults (Frank, Patty, Lucille)
0.0.1 Jackson's baby (George, R.I.P. 11/17/2003)
1.1 Nosy Be's (Mars and Roja)
1.1 Veiled - No Names Yet
0.1 Adult Sulcatta (POOPIE,I bought it from Victor at Kobey's in SD)
0.0.2 Baby Sulcattas (frick and frack)
1.0 Home's Hingeback Tortoise (SPEEDY, From Victor as well)
1.2 Red ear slider babies (Hingis, Dingis and Dorkus)
0.0.1 3 toed box turtle - No Name Yet
0.0.1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle - No Name Yet
1.0 Red Siberian Husky (Harley)
0.1 Black Lab (Krissy)
0.1 English Bulldog (Alice)
0.1 Blue Merle Great Dane (Wednesday)
Saltwater Fish and Inverts too

LOL to tell you the truth I read the whole tread and had a really hard time understanding what in the world was being babbeld. Jackson'srule, I know you want this post to disapear but I had to say this. It is better not to judge a person's spelling, for example I am Mexican Lived there for 13 years I been here for almost six years ( I am 19) and I am still learning to write english properly. I know that if someone made fun of me because of the way that I write I would not feel confortable posting again.

.

np

Wow, I didn't know that I would get you people so riled up.
I was simply trying to help those that may not know the correct way to use the name. But apparently, the correct way is irrelevant when it comes to the internet.

I don't think striving to be accurate is wasting time. I try to do that in my daily life with just about everything.

It's funny how people can have two-week long heated, mean-spirtited arguments about Mercury Vapor Bulbs or UVA vs. UVB and calcium absorption, but when I try to get scientific with nomenclature, I get told I'm wasting my time.

Anyway, excuse me. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

"I try to get scientific with nomenclature"

What I meant was, proper use of the name in written English. Not neccessarliy the scientific form.

Anyway, let's move on, shall we?

>>"I try to get scientific with nomenclature"
>>
>>What I meant was, proper use of the name in written English. Not neccessarliy the scientific form.
>>
>>Anyway, let's move on, shall we?

To be completely accurate, the Parson's Chameleon was named for a Mr. Parsons and as such, should be called the Parsons' Chameleon and its scientific name should actually be Calumma parsonsii. Additionally, I believe, but may be mistaking, the Meller's Chameleon was named for a Mr. Mueller with the ue being a replacement for the german u with the umlaute (can't spell it but its the two dots above the u). As such, that name isn't really correct either if you want to get very technical...
Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

Actually, there are several species witht he name "melleri". there's a duck, and a few other birds, I think.
The discoverer was Muller(spelled withthe two dots above the "u", often spelled mueller, which is pronounced in english as mule-er. While Muller and mueller are SPELLED closer to the discoverer's name, Meller is the closer ENGLISH pronounciation.

Now I am not 100% sure about this, it has been over a decade since I was told this. English names are regional, there are tons of names for the same species. Europeans call callyptratus "yemens" or "yemeni" chameleons, deremensis are called giant 3 horns, usambara chameleons, etc.

So in reality, calling jacksonii jackson's may SEEM the more techinical way to go, you must also consider subspecies. Your "jackson's chameleon" is most likely NOT one of the same species discovered by Jackson. those are slightly smaller, and both sexes can have 3 horns. Xantholopus were much more recently discovered, and to be techinical, are not "jackson's chameleon," they are a larger subspecies of Jackson's chameleon.
so there.

See how muddled nomenclature gets?
At least we can say that they are C.Jacksonii xantholopus, and nobody's gonna argue. After that fact is established, everything else is descriptive or for marketing purposes.

Oh, and regarding Parsonii...
The discoverer was NOT parsons, they were named in parson's honor--this is pretty common, there's a mite or somthing withthe scientific name "garylarsonii", in honor of the "Far side" creator.
useless facts # 1784 and 497 respectivly...

Eric A

>>Actually, there are several species witht he name "melleri". there's a duck, and a few other birds, I think.
>>The discoverer was Muller(spelled withthe two dots above the "u", often spelled mueller, which is pronounced in english as mule-er. While Muller and mueller are SPELLED closer to the discoverer's name, Meller is the closer ENGLISH pronounciation.
>>
>>Now I am not 100% sure about this, it has been over a decade since I was told this. English names are regional, there are tons of names for the same species. Europeans call callyptratus "yemens" or "yemeni" chameleons, deremensis are called giant 3 horns, usambara chameleons, etc.
>>
>>So in reality, calling jacksonii jackson's may SEEM the more techinical way to go, you must also consider subspecies. Your "jackson's chameleon" is most likely NOT one of the same species discovered by Jackson. those are slightly smaller, and both sexes can have 3 horns. Xantholopus were much more recently discovered, and to be techinical, are not "jackson's chameleon," they are a larger subspecies of Jackson's chameleon.
>>so there.
>>
>>See how muddled nomenclature gets?
>>At least we can say that they are C.Jacksonii xantholopus, and nobody's gonna argue. After that fact is established, everything else is descriptive or for marketing purposes.
>>
>>Oh, and regarding Parsonii...
>>The discoverer was NOT parsons, they were named in parson's honor--this is pretty common, there's a mite or somthing withthe scientific name "garylarsonii", in honor of the "Far side" creator.
>>useless facts # 1784 and 497 respectivly...
>>
>>Eric A

As I said, the Parson's chameleon was named for a Mr. Parsons, I never said he discovered it. They were discribed by Cuvier. According to my sources, they were named for J. Parsons and as such, it should be the Parsons' chameleon, Calumma parsonsii, not the Parson's chameleon, Calumma parsonii. Since in scientific nomenclature, the "i" or "ii" signifies that it was named after a male by the preceding name, parsonsii would be more correct than parsonii.

Furthermore, since it was named for Mr. Müller, and in German, the umlauts "Ä", "Ö", "Ü", "ä", "ö" and "ü" can be paraphrased as "Ae", "Oe", "Ue", "ae", "oe" and "ue", respectively and the "ß" can be paraphrased as "ss" or "sz", under the same reasoning, Chamaeleo melleri is incorrect. Since there is no "ü" in the latin alphabet and the "ü" is analogous to "ue" in the german language, it should be Chamaeleo muelleri, the Mueller's Chameleon.

With Ch. jacksonii, only Ch. jacksonii jacksonii is actually a Jackson's chameleon if you want to get really technical. Ch. jacksonii merumontana is the Mt. Meru Jackson's chameleon and Ch. jacksonii xantholophus is the Mt. Kenya yellow-crested Jackson's chameleon.

Isn't systematics fun?

Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

np

They don't allow apostrophes, mr. wise guy.

Ok, so now that everyone has taken their turn finding a clever way to tear me a new one, can we move on?

I obviously never should have brought it up. I can, however, appreciate the scientific banter that was presented regarding names. Way over my humble head - and very informative.

I stand corrected, I'm sorry, I wasted everyone's time, I'm down wit da net, etc.

Jackson's, Jacksonseses's, Jacksonii Xanthopolus Poppadoppalas MerumonTonyMontanus , jAckSinZ KumEeleunZ, yellow-crested magenta-phase xenomorph Mt. Kenya hybrid subspecies, who cares. We all know what each other means, right?

So, next topic, please. How about those feeder roaches?
Nasty little boogers.

Okay.....you're off da hooK!!

I take it you havent been following the Chris (CV numbers) posts and responses?? It's not a good idea to go against the majority here...especially when it relates to the wellbeing of our cham friends!

On a positive note....you DID provide us a respite from Chris-bashing!!

LOL!
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Raf

1.2 Jacksons Adults (Frank, Patty, Lucille)
0.0.1 Jackson's baby (George, R.I.P. 11/17/2003)
1.1 Nosy Be's (Mars and Roja)
1.1 Veiled - No Names Yet
0.1 Adult Sulcatta (POOPIE,I bought it from Victor at Kobey's in SD)
0.0.2 Baby Sulcattas (frick and frack)
1.0 Home's Hingeback Tortoise (SPEEDY, From Victor as well)
1.2 Red ear slider babies (Hingis, Dingis and Dorkus)
0.0.1 3 toed box turtle - No Name Yet
0.0.1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle - No Name Yet
1.0 Red Siberian Husky (Harley)
0.1 Black Lab (Krissy)
0.1 English Bulldog (Alice)
0.1 Blue Merle Great Dane (Wednesday)
Saltwater Fish and Inverts too