Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was reading the last issue of the British magazine Reptile Care. The anaconda article says they can be highly unpredictable (temperment I presume, and individuals I presume). Is this the experience anaconda keepers on this forum have? Does your tame anaconda, once in a while, just turns around and gives you a nasty bite for the fun of it?

` The whole idea of categorizing higher animal behavior is simplistic. Maybe it works with rotifers, but not snakes. It's like believing that all people in a specific race, nationality, ethnic group, or religion behave the same. It really isn't whether the subject you're considering is or is not as you would categorize them. It is that you are turning off a large part of your mental abilities when you look at things that way. It is easier, it seems to be less risky, and it is habituating.
` As far as Anacondas are concerned, I have seen different individuals with widely differing behavior traits. There are inherited traits, and environmentally generated traits. Some are permanent, some can change. Just like people, or dogs, etc. I used to go way out of my way to avoid French Poodles, those high strung little terrors. A new neighbor breeds them and his, several generations of them, are calm, friendly, and pleasant animals to be around.
` In my group of Yellow Anacondas, I have one small, adult male, who is touchy. He came from a wholesaler who is a reptile mill. He came with mites, general weak health, and a bad attitude. He has snapped at me a couple of times in 5 years. Worse, he has squirted me a few times. He has only done this when over handled.
` The rest of my Yellows, and I have a few, have not tried to bite anyone, including strangers handling them at presentations. I have insulted them often, and accidentally hurt most of them, occasionally. They'll get stubborn, and really fight to get away, at times. I had one very large male wrap his tail around my belt buckle, and I didn't notice. When I bent over and pinched his tail, he threw a fit, hissing and struggling, but did not try to bite. He, and the rest of my Yellow Anacondas are from a breeder, not just a wholesaler. They came to me as babies with calm, gentle behavior, and in perfect health.
` As far as the article you were reading, well, you know how the British are!
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The first lesson of any animal behaviorist is, the one predictable thing about wildlife is that they are unpredictable. Meaning, have a normal respect for animals that they will not always behave as you THINK they "should", even if they've been consistent, doesn't mean they can't behave differently with a different set of variables (sickness, hunger, new stimuli, strange prey/predator, etc. etc. and other things less obvious).

But I agree with the last post. After observing them, you can often predict the temperament of an animal, individual, and perhaps generalize about a species. But don't rely on this and forget that wild animals, even domestic animals - all have a mind of their own - just ask whats-his-name, Roy, the tiger trainer in Vegas who ended up with his "pet" attached to his head during a show. This does not mean they are unpredictable, however.

The radio telemetry and mark and recapture allowed us to encounter wild anaconda individuals repeatedly, and they definitely had different personalities, but it wasn't as if at any time we had no idea what to expect from a snake. This is just fear-based ignorance from the general crowd, whether you're talking snakes or mountain lions. Usually the bigger the snake, the more laid back - but not always. We had one that was such an ornery b*tch, always trying to strike even when she'd been sleeping at the bottom of the oil drum (for a few hours only), that we named her "Boake" after the then chair of the Ecology Dept. at UT Knoxville, a woman with a like temperament.

Also, it was interesting to see that the wild boa constrictors were typically VERY snappy, and pissy, much unlike their handled captive cousins.

Renee

` When I interact with a snake, I keep in mind that it has few choices. If you're trying to control a human, or even a dog,or cat, that critter has many choices in how to respond to you. That can make it almost impossible to anticipate what it will do to you. Hell, my Blue and Gold Macaw can often anticipate what I'm going to do, and control me! The human, dog, cat, and bird, have a much wider range of judgment options to choose their actions, even if they're hurried reactions.
` The Anaconda is much more controlled by its instincts. So, when you hurry its response, you're liable to get a pre-programmed response. While they do have some latitude in their ability to respond, they are very slow, when in the optional mode. So, it is very easy to hurry them, and force them to fall back on one of the pre-programmed instinctive modes of behavior. These are simple, and few; run, panic( poop/puke on you ), fight, give up, and very few others.
` I've had some very good results with my Boids by giving them all the options, especially as neonates. They have so few options, that I can juggle them, and still be in control. The snake feels like it's in control, and being relaxed, will show you behavior you'd not think possible, from a Boid.
` This method has also allowed me to watch people handling problem snakes, and determine what they're doing to aggravate the snake. In retail, I watched so many people trying to force their pets, taking away the snake's choices, often causing an instinctive, and unpleasant, reaction. They would squeeze them, restrain them, try to prevent them from backing up, force them into movements. Simply, removing the snake's tiny ability to do some original thinking, thus pushing the snake back into instinctive mode, where there are just a few responses.
` I "condition" baby Boids to put their chin, or throat on the back of my hand. Once they're used to that, I can steer them almost anywhere, just by putting the back of my hand under their head. They want to perch on it, and follow it wherever I lead them. That's really handy with a 60 pound snake. I've found that I can "teach" or condition, the right snake into responding to four or five "commands". I've even been able to condition a few difficult adults, for customers. I've also got chewed up, and failed with many adults.
` One of the advantages of working with a tame, and relaxed, mature Anaconda is the apex predator instinct. That instinct, it seems to me, makes them less nervous about unexpected input. Many of them are just not expecting to be attacked. So, they are able to forgive many insults other Boids will not.
` Another point is this: as the generations of captive bred Anacondas increase, more tame snakes will be available. What Renee mentioned about wild Boa constrictors being aggressive, I experienced 45 years ago in field collected Boas for sale as pets, in southern California. In those days, virtually all Boas available in retail were wild. When checking out babies, or adults, you had to be careful. It always seemed to me that aggressive Boas seemed to go for your face more than other Boids. In my experience, they were more aggressive, on average, than the wild Burmese Pythons also available at that time. In those days, selective breeding was aimed at disposition, rather than appearance. It didn't take too many generations of breeding for behavior to create "pet grade" critters.

` Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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I hope you realize I say that a bit tongue-in-cheek, and with a generous dose of respect and admiration, both at how you care for your animals and the generous advice you give to others!

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

` Now I'm going to have to get the book and read it, so I'll know how to react to your post.
` Horses scare the Hell out of me. They're so BIG!

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LOL....It's a neat story about a guy who can handle even the most difficult of horses simply because he knows and understands them so well. He "speaks their language"...so to speak.

Judy

The reason that most vertebrates, including snakes in this case, are many times labeled as unpredictable is because we have no way of relating to how they perceive the environment around them. We have very little in the way of a common frame of reference with snakes when it comes to how they interpret the world around them. They may perceive a vulnerability or a threat to themselves in a given situation, while we sense neither of these things, even when we try to put ourselves in their place. We may think we know what a snake will perceive as a threat, and in many cases we can, but not always. And therefore, the appearance of being unpredictable.
As pointed out in the two previous posts, snakes all have their own individual behaviors, some predictable, some not. Although rare, there are a few captive raised individual anacondas, and other snakes as well, that will occasionally strike out for no apparent reason. For whatever reason, these snakes are obviously perceiving a threat. This is especially true when young, as these snakes have a heighten sense of vulnerability and it takes time to lose this. As Renee pointed out, and from what I have experienced with the captive born green anacondas I've dealt with, is that the vast majority of captive born snakes usually outgrow this behavior fairly quickly, losing it over time and as they become larger. Once they have become adjusted to captivity and human contact, I've never seen a captive born revert back. Many wild caught boids may never adjust to captivity and are aggressive for the rest of their lives, especially if they have much age. Additionally, the threat perception of many individual snakes probably has a strong genetic component to it also.

Kelly

Snakes are not domesticated, they live on instinct, dont behave like food or a predator, and they will not bother with attacking/nuking you. Snakes strike out of fear or hunger(i.e. they think your food).

Wow sounds like alot of different experiences than what I've had.
Unpredictable is the word I use for both greens and yellows.
And let me just say right off this obviously does'nt apply to every single snake. But generally speaking, as a genera anacondas are more unpredictable than other large constrictors. I'm not saying more apt to bite I'm saying more unpredictable. I would say 75% of the time that I have been bit by a snake that I had been handling for a length of time. No external stimulus, no restraining,squeezing,etc...
And then the snake latches on to me, alot of times not even a strike, alot of times just rubbing against you, and then latch on. 75% of the times(and I'm being conservative) the snake has been an anaconda.
I bred yellows for years in the early 90s. I've bred rocks, retics, burms and boas. I've never bred greens but have had many. I have 3 adults right now. 2 of them I consider tame the other one, is unpredictable. Which means 1 out of 5-10 times it is going to try and bite me.
This is not a feeding reponse, it does'nt seem to be a flight or fight response. Take a retic that wants to bite you are going to know immediately and continue to know. Fast rapid strikes repeatedly. I've had an anaconda bite me and kept handling it and maybe it would'nt bite again or maybe it would wait 4-5 minutes and then bite again.
Rocks in my exp. are more likely to bite than anacondas but once again they're going to let you know.
I had an 8 foot male yellow bite my hand and wrapped up my forearm. I relaxed and let him have his way and I thought he might snap my arm.
I love my anacondas but I don't trust them, and I don't let other people hold them. D.C.

CONDAS ARE LIKE PIT BULLS, IF NICE PARENTS A BREAD YOUR HAVE A REAL GOOD CHANCE OF GETTING NICE BABIES. I HAVE BREAD YELLOWS AND NONE ARE NICE, I CANT TRUST MINE. THERE PARENTS ARE THE SAME WAY. IM NO LONGER GOING TO BREED MINE BECAUSE OF THAT. I KINDA WISH DFR WOULD BREED HIS JUST TO SEE IF THE BABIES THAT HIS PRODUCE HAVE THE SAME ATTITUDE THAT HIS CONDAS HAVE (I WOULD PAY A GOOD PRICE FOR THEM). THAT WAY WE COULD POSIBLY PROVE THAT ATTITUDE IS GENETIC AND NOT A LABEL A SPECIE SHOULD CARRY. SO DFR WHAT DO YA THINK?

` Mine bred in 2002-2003. I thought they were too young and had the male and female together. She had trouble delivering, and it took two months to deliver all the babies, after a six month term. Twenty nine babies were stillborn, over a two month period. They looked perfect. Some were born with their shed skins beside them. I was beside myself for two months, as I feared the female would die of the complications. This female is a giant, for a young Yellow Anaconda, and she is completely tame. The father is even more tame, if possible. They were both born tame, and neither has ever tried to bite anyone. She has recovered completely from the births, but I am afraid to put her through it again.
` There are many people in my area, requesting me to breed them again. The other problem is that so many of the people who want Anacondas, want them for the wrong reasons ( I'm not talking about anyone on this forum ).
` The female is gaining back the little weight she lost during her term, and still growing, too. I may breed them again, if I can find out from someone who breeds Anacondas whether this means that she will continue to have difficult births, or not. I wonder if it was because it was her first time, and she was only 4 years old. I won't risk her health again until I know more than I do now. I keep them as pets, so breeding them is not my main goal.
`

` These pix were taken while they were mating.

`

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Be careful the 4th or 5th mine had babies her uterus prolapsed. What a mess. 29 is a huge clutch for yellows. Mine typically had between 12-15.
I actually think disposition can be an inherited trait. I've seen lots of examples of it in Am. alligators.
The first green I ever owned came from a reptile park where the female was an enormous but incredibly docile snake. The baby was very gentle. AND they only fed the parents chickens. While I know alot of anacondas prefer fowl this is the only strong eating anaconda that I've ever had that at some point in time I could'nt switch over to rodents or rabbits. Once again I believe any snake can be docile I've had examples of most (the big ones). But I still believe as a genera they are unpredictable. D.C.

` Thanks for the information. How did the prolapsed uterus affect the snake, and the babies? What did you to to correct the problem? Did she survive? I would sure appreciate that information. Thanks.

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After she had dropped her babies I noticed this huge mass hanging out of her cloaca. I did'nt know what it was I had heard of that condition in mammals but never in snakes. And this was not her first delivery.
Anyway I used to work at a reptile park so I called my former boss he said bring her in. He has tons of primates and recognized it immediately as prolapsed uterus.
We soaked her in sugar water and though I was skeptical at first(this was a massive organ on the outside of her body) the sugar water did shrink up the uterus. We were able to push it back in but then it would slide back out.
Her cloaca had a slight tear so we push it back and then stitched the tear and a couple of extra stitches also.
Obviously the stitches holding the cloaca partially closed we only left in for a few days.
She recovered I seperated her from the male the following year. The next year I sold her to my former boss he reported subsequent breeding but no actual births.
She is still alive and at least 19 years old.D.C.

` That's a great story, thanks for replying. I've dealt with prolapsed colorectal tissue in many neonates, but all that uterine tissue, with the large amount of circulatory system in it, whew. You were so lucky to have an expert to help you. I'll have to re-think allowing my female to go through another term.
` Thanks for all the information.
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I'd give her at least a year off. Successful breeding might be the pinnacle of herpteculture but sometimes I long for the days when they were just pets. It seems like every 10 yr old kid in the world is'nt happy with just keeping leopard geckos they have to breed them.
I had a breeding group of columbians(2.4) some years ago I kept them together year round. 1 female bred every other year, 1 bred every 3rd year, 1 never did breed, and 1 bred every year. I was under the misconception that they "knew" what was best for their bodies. The one that bred every year was an amazing eater cramming down 3-4 lb rabbits to gain her weight back. But after about 6 years something happen and she started off eating good and then stopped would'nt eat at all and then died. I felt I had "burned" her out. I felt pretty bad. In the wild I doubt there is unlimited access to a male. If you decide to breed her and you're successful split them up the next year. Give her a break she'll live a lot longer. I apologize if this info falls under the "DUH" catergory but you seemed concerned about your snake so I thought I'd give you my take. Later maybe I'll tell you the weirdest "behavioral" snake breeding story I have. D.C.

From the posts, it seems like there is an element of unpredictability in Anacondas, perhaps more so than in other snakes. Of course, the individual snake must be considered. Danny Conner's post about an anaconda biting him something like 1 out 10 times was very interesting.

I have a 4' baby Anaconda that I've had for about 5 months. Not sure of its origin...I take it out for exercise about 3 times a week, so I've taken it out about 60 times in all. It has never shown any signs of aggression at all. So, I'm almost prepared to say my little Anaconda is predictable, within reason (the only thing I think is 100% truly predictable is physics. But let's no go there...especially quantum physics...).

I'm very careful when handling my baby green, I do not surprise it, and I remove it carefully from its cage (slowly grabing it at mid-body, always supporting it). But, I make a point of letting it sense me anywhere - my hands, legs, arms, even head.
Will be interesting if I can keep my 100% success rate of no aggression. At least they can't have bad hair days.

It's about some mild mannered guy who goes completely
ballistic and goes on a rampage.

It's funny because he's a completely nerdy, harmless looking
guy in the film.

I saw a clip on the Animal planet of a guy who had a big boa
that was really tame. Well, he gets bit for the very first time
right in the face while someone was filming him. I think the
things that might stress out a boa may not be immediately
apparent to us.

Yeah, not bad movie. I could really relate to it, 'bout ready to get out my 9mm myself, too bad we can't get rid of most of the politicians, doctors and lawyers. Then we'd have a decent society.