Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is frustrating, when I heard my adult creamcicle whistling one night and stop the next I figured it was going to shed. We it hasn't shed yet and this was several weeks ago. He's been fine ever since, eating, pooping and haging out. Last night I hold him again, and I hear this popping noise with an occasional faint whistle. Crap! I figure it to possibly be the beginnings of a respiatory infection abeit a very slight one at the moment as there is no bubbles or gaping mouth gasping for breath. So I put another lamp on top of his cage to heat it up to around 88-90 degrees (that artificial fever thing). But before I go running to the vet to pay out the wazoo for antibiotics he may or may not need, I wondered if I could use some herbal remedies on him first. Specifically what I was looking at was echinacea, goldenseal and grapefruitseed extract. I've got a better then most knowledge of herbs and using them with HUMANS and mammmals. I've never had to try to dose a snake. Does anyone have any experience with using this type of treatment and the result? I did find some dosing measuremements for reptiles (based on their weight in grams) for echinacea, but nothing else.

Thanks for any help in advance.

PS. here is a picture of my new baby (4 yrs old) Kreame, the one who may have the RI.

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Chantel a.k.a. sillygirl
"I came, I saw, I adopted"

2.2 green anoles (Stumpy (M)), and the rest remain nameless.
2.1 green tree frogs (Romeo & Juliet, Bonnie & Clyde)
0.0.3 D. tinctorius (Cobalt froglets)
0.1 Anerythristic 'B' (Charcoal)corn snake (Popcorn)
0.1 Snow Corn (KandyKorn)
0.2 Amel Corns (KornSilk & KornMuffin)
0.1 Normal Corn (PepperKorn)
1.0 Creamsicle Corn (Kream)
0.0.1 Giant African Millipede
2.4 Domestic house cats (Bad Boy (m), Bart(m),Sasha(F),Little Bit(F),Spirit(F)
1.0 Rottweiler (Jake)
2.4 Rats (Mouse, Socks, Silver, Squishy and two females to mean to name)
1.3 Mice (My step-daughter seems to think they are pets)
1.0 Husband (David, who loves all my critters too)

I have heard of people using grapefruit seed extract for snakes in drinking water, and they say it works for gastrointestinal problems. Beyond that, I don't know of any research with echinacea or goldenseal in reptiles (those are my mom's two favorites, BTW). I know they're pretty much safe for everything else, but I don't know if I'd use my pets as guinea pigs. Except maybe the guinea pig. Er, anyway, also, to properly dose the stuff, you'd almost have to give it via stomach tube because putting in the water is pretty inexact.
Anyway, right now the URI is so mild I probably wouldn't do anything besides what you've done. What's your humidity at? Bumping it up a bit might help.
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

The humidity is at around 40%. But I thought with snakes, you lowered the humidity for URI's, not upped it. Someone please tell me if I'm wrong.

The reason I was thinking echinacea is because it's anti-bacterial and anti-viral as well as an excellent boost to the immune system. If the infection were to get worse, I'm not sure anything short of anitibioics would work. Personally, I don't like using antibiotics because of the damage they can cause as well as the expense involved (I'm not against getting my animals vet treatment, but usually only if it's something I can't handle or don't know what I'm dealing with). As far as administering it. I'm not worried. With having as many critters as I do, I've never had a problem with medication, plus I have a good supply of sterile syringes without the needles to measure/administer with. I need only a second pair of hands.

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Chantel a.k.a. sillygirl
"I came, I saw, I adopted"

2.2 green anoles (Stumpy (M)), and the rest remain nameless.
2.1 green tree frogs (Romeo & Juliet, Bonnie & Clyde)
0.0.3 D. tinctorius (Cobalt froglets)
0.1 Anerythristic 'B' (Charcoal)corn snake (Popcorn)
0.1 Snow Corn (KandyKorn)
0.2 Amel Corns (KornSilk & KornMuffin)
0.1 Normal Corn (PepperKorn)
1.0 Creamsicle Corn (Kream)
0.0.1 Giant African Millipede
2.4 Domestic house cats (Bad Boy (m), Bart(m),Sasha(F),Little Bit(F),Spirit(F)
1.0 Rottweiler (Jake)
2.4 Rats (Mouse, Socks, Silver, Squishy and two females to mean to name)
1.3 Mice (My step-daughter seems to think they are pets)
1.0 Husband (David, who loves all my critters too)

Hmm, now that I think about it, I've only dealt with URI's in higher humidity snakes (just lucky) maybe you shouldn't change it.
I'm pretty disillusioned with vet treatments of URI's, especially if they don't do a culture first. I just wouldn't want to be the first to try something like that...
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

I don't trust doctors. There is a reason they call it praticing medicine. Vets are only one step above them in my opinion.

I think I'll give it a try treating Kreame with the herbs, I know they won't hurt him, it's just a matter of if they will help him and what dose to use.

If anyone has a strong opinion as to why I shouldn't, speak now or forever hold your peace.

I'll let everyone know the outcome.
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Chantel a.k.a. sillygirl
"I came, I saw, I adopted"

2.2 green anoles (Stumpy (M)), and the rest remain nameless.
2.1 green tree frogs (Romeo & Juliet, Bonnie & Clyde)
0.0.3 D. tinctorius (Cobalt froglets)
0.1 Anerythristic 'B' (Charcoal)corn snake (Popcorn)
0.1 Snow Corn (KandyKorn)
0.2 Amel Corns (KornSilk & KornMuffin)
0.1 Normal Corn (PepperKorn)
1.0 Creamsicle Corn (Kream)
0.0.1 Giant African Millipede
2.4 Domestic house cats (Bad Boy (m), Bart(m),Sasha(F),Little Bit(F),Spirit(F)
1.0 Rottweiler (Jake)
2.4 Rats (Mouse, Socks, Silver, Squishy and two females to mean to name)
1.3 Mice (My step-daughter seems to think they are pets)
1.0 Husband (David, who loves all my critters too)

All the vets I've had definately needed more practice. I just wish they wouldn't practice on me!
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

For the life of me I can't find the post or remember what herb was used, but I once saw a post where someone said they took some herb (ugh! wish I could remember which one) and made a tea that they sat in a dish on the warm side of the tank. It worked for them. I'll let you know if I find it. I'd also like to know what you end up and trying and how it works. Good luck!
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My Album

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

I've never heard of an "artificial fever" treatment, nor have I heard of any herbal treatments for reptiles.

What I have heard of are respiratory infections (with symptoms exactly like the ones you describe) that have the power and speed to kill snakes in a matter of days or weeks. We're talking about an animal with only one functional lung here.

There is no such thing as a "minor" respiratory infection in snakes. RI's are a serious condition that need to be treated by qualified reptile vets.

You shouldn't necessarily pay out the wazoo for an RI treatment / prescription. Call a couple of vets (sooner rather than later) and get some quotes. I'd be surprised if the whole thing was more then 40 - 50 bucks.

Good luck.

-Brandon
www.nosnakeban.org

My vet always recommends raising the temperature a few degrees, it's an accepted method of helping sick snakes.
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

I don't know where you are at but I need your vet. I think I am getting screwed. I have only dealt with one RI but the first vet estimate was $400 plus follow up at $15 a day for injections every 3 days.

That was for blood work, fecal testing, fluids to combat dehydration, meds and overnight hospitalization.

I took a lot of that off the estimate and told them what I wanted done, plus I did the injections myself at home but still it was way more than $50. Any guess what? He lived AND no more wheezing. It's too bad nobody really wants to discuss medical treatment because of the liability since I would really like to know when the vet is taking me for a ride.

Sorry...I am just bitter because I just spent $57 on a rat at the vet just to find out she had lice that I could treat with an over the counter medicine. $57 on a breeder that probably cost me $2. I get all my animals treatment when they need it but at that rate I can see why some wouldn't.
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Anna

The Zoo
Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost(pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - Parker & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Motley - Cordelia aka Cordy
Boas
0.1 Columbian (BCC) - Bella
Lizards
1.0 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo Agouti - Moon
1.0 Silvered Black - Pluto
1.0 Powder Blue - Corner
Plus the breeders
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Gray DMS - Druscilla aka Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

Just because we haven't heard of different methods doesn't mean anything. She's obviously done some research and if there are natural approaches to medicine for reptiles I would like to hear about it. Doesn't mean I wouldn't go to the vet, but still I would like to have the info to discuss with my vet. This forum is to share information.
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Anna

The Zoo
Corns
1.0 Snow - Cornelius
1.1 Ghost(pastel) - Eek & Boo
1.1 Amel - Parker & Scarlet
0.1 Hypo - Nikko
0.1 Anery - Missy
0.1 Hypo Motley - Cordelia aka Cordy
Boas
0.1 Columbian (BCC) - Bella
Lizards
1.0 Leopard Gecko - Leo
Rats
0.1 Dumbo Agouti - Moon
1.0 Silvered Black - Pluto
1.0 Powder Blue - Corner
Plus the breeders
Cats
1.1 Siamese - Blue & Fiona
0.1 Gray DMS - Druscilla aka Dru
Horses
1.0 Thourghbred (Hunter/Jumper) - Morgan's Majesty aka Cody

the reptile dose amount for echinacea?
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My Album

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"