Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do gravid blackheads/or freckleds balloon out and appear as distended as ackies get when they are gravid, or do they stay a bit skinnier? Also, I forget which is which, but I remember hearing that one species typically lays more eggs per clutch compared to the other. Was it blackheads that layed more, or freckleds. I'm just curious; I've never seen any photos of gravid tristis, and I have a female who is starting to look nice and pudgy, compared to her state a week ago. She has been digging all over her enclosure, so there's that slim possibility of her being gravid, but I've never seen a gravid tristis before..any light shined on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

bob

Hi Bob. I guess you need to stop and think about this.

You seem to be doing the monitor thing, so its time you take another path about rule making.

First to determine if a monitor is gravid by being pudgy is very inaccurate. Its also very primative. Lastly its misleading and setting a bad example for newcomers.

With most small monitors its very easy to palpate them gently and feel the eggs, in many cases, you can see the eggs if you just look. To palpate is to simply let them crawl on their own accord thru your fingers. Keep your fingers slighly smaller then the diameter of the monitor in question.

Species like tristis and specially your favorite, the prasinus group, are so very easy to palpate its almost funny.

About egg size, as the first to breed VTT and the second in the states to breed VTO , Breeding both for many years, I find no difference in egg size between the two. Of course, any single female can and do lay a range of egg sizes, From a few large eggs, to many small eggs, to the opposite, of a few small eggs to many large eggs. You may be thinking about Ackies, True reds and yellows do have a real difference in their range of egg size.

The reality is, V.tristis, can be very sneeky about reproduction. Some never get pudgy and often dig their nests from hidden spots, like under boards. Its possible you will never notice anything. This mostly applies to very young females and females laying very few eggs.

I do agree that most gravid females have a distintive look, but unfortunately, it only covers most of the females, not all of them. That is the different path of rule making. There is little of all this does this, and all that does that. Also assigning species to everything you see is odd. As most monitor species, do this. As you gain experience, you will see that species differences apply more to how they do what they do, not what they do. But of course, thats vague too. Of course I wish you good luck with your critters, F

Hey Frank,

thanks for the info, although I might have stated my question about the eggs incorrectly. I was just wondering which species commonly(I know that there are no set "rules" with them) lays larger quantities. I have read and heard that egg size can vary within a single female, as well as clutch size, however, I could have sworn that I somewhere read that one subspecies lays more quantity wise per clutch, just curious, as I keep both tristis and orientalis.

I did not mean to imply that I thought she is gravid because she has increased in size, I've just noticed certain behaviors that would point a beginner such as myself into thinking that these might be "signs". I keep pretty good notes on behavior and such, so in the future, as i'm sure you have done, can look back at notes and pick out certain trends or behaviors and improve on my husbandry from there. So, I guess I'll just see where the future takes me.

As for the size of gravid girls thing, I was just wondering because I have seen ridiculously large gravid acanthurus, I mean to the point that it looks like they are about to pop... I just couldn't imagine seeing a female tristis like that; they have different body shapes/forms. I can understand that a female laying a smaller sized clutch would not appear as big as one with a large clutch, and that there will be varience within any species, but have you seen a really BIG gravid t. tristis, or orientalis?

Thanks for pointing that out Frank, take care,

My best run with VTO's was, I had two females in the same trough produce 11 clutches in 11 weeks. Then one female rested a couple weeks and a month after her sixth clutch she laid a clutch of 16 that all hatched. (one female laid 5, the other 6)

The 11 clutches ranged from 5 eggs to 13 eggs.

I have had similar results with VTT, but just a tad less. Recently I had one produce 16 eggs in one clutch, but unfortunatey, I did not dig them up until the eggs had died.

Also, I have seen the going to pop females, but that has not happened here. I think its more to do with being fat, low temps plus lots of calories. but still in conditions that allow breeding. Remember, all of this stuff canoverlap.

As you gain experience, you will understand, you can breed monitors successfully, you can do that poorly, or well. There is a whole range of results that include babies. For one baby for their entire reproductive career to hundreds, yet, some call all that successful.

Lastly, I am not sure about the purity of what we are now calling VTT and VTO. As the lines seem to have blended in many cases. Oh, I no longer keep notes as after a while it all becomes one.(in rare cases I do) I see more important behaviors related to what I do, then what they do. That means, their success is based on how much attention and importance I offer. Thanks and great luck, F