Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is why the guy backed out...
"$900.00 Pastels"
you judge for yourself...

He's perfect in every way. From a reputable dealer, too. He's eaten his way up to 400 grams already.
I think the trick is not to avoid what sounds too good to be true, but to research anyone you buy from, be it a $10 baby or a $10k morph. That way, even if you do not know how to tell a pastel from a normal, warning flags should go off that it's not the right person to deal with. Either that or most scammers won't have enough verifiable referances. Then there is always that website we're not allowed to mention that saves many people from being scammed by having good and bad feedback about many in the herp industry. That site can be found by shooting me an e-mail.

Yeah, those are normals. But $900US IS too good to be true. Not for the buyers though. For the breeders! Last year was great and they wer easy to sell at $1100-1300 for males, but this year, I think a lot of breeders will be HAPPY to get $900. Its too bad, because Pastels are really pretty!

We only have 4 males left and we have 4 customers looking at them as we speak. I have been calling around for 3-12 male Pastels for breeders next year and no has them. Check for yourself but I think you will be wasting your time. And if you know someone in Canada or the US then please let me know.
You might see 1-2 posted per week compared to albinos. And now Hermin is not posting anymore.

I agree, The Pastels seem to be selling quite well still. I have seen some advertised at lower prices but they usually are not the best looking pastel but are still pastels. The higher color, better looking animals don't seem to last long. I have a NERD Bloodline advertised now and doubt he will last long either. Most of the Pastels we have sold this year have never even made it online and have sold as soon as they arrived to us. The majority of Pastels specially males that sell inexpensively are usually due to the seller needing quick cash. Most others woudl rather sit on the animal(s) and use them for breeders next year instead of selling them too low.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=184683

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Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.oldworldchameleons.com
www.ballpythonmorphs.net

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Signature edited to remove advertising comments.

Edited on January 25, 2004 at 18:07:49 by phwyvern.

I really dont think there will be that many people that will settle for 900.00 for a pastel especially a screamer. I can possibly see 900.00 for a decent pastel, but I really think the market will hold at or around 1000.00 with the better looking animals being graded.. Just my thoughts on this though and I may very well be wrong but only this upcoming season will tell.

Bryan

I could have gotten a pastel(real) last year(2002 actually).......for $700.......it all depends who you know and if you are going to actually just spend too much or not.....

.......

yep

I have heard a lot of stories like the one your are telling. "People are selling male Pastels for $700" but they are not advertising them publicly that low. Thanks GOD, That is a good thing. It does not hurt the market price, not everyone expects that low of a price because it is not seen publicly. Those selling at these low prices dont hurt me either because they sell out and sell out fast because their price is wrong. Their supply does not meet the demand for them at those low prices otherwise they would not sell out. If you sell out of anything in the world today then your prices are not market price.
Please understand we had 51 Pastels this year and we had 45 of those for sale at one point or another. Well, we only have 11 left and out of the 7 girls left we want to keep at least 5.
Everyone wants the highest of quality animals but many cant afford them thats why "low white pieds" and some "ugly Pastels" sell.

My pretty pastel male was purchased for $750, and I found him via the classifieds here. Perhaps I just got lucky.

Hi,

You are saying that you got a decent male Pastel advertised on Kingsnake for $750. Is this correct?
I have never seen any Pastel advertised below $850 on Kingsnake and I am on 10 times daily. I am not saying that you are not telling the truth, but what I am saying is that this person sold out of what they wanted to at this price. They could not provide/supply the demand for Pastels at that price of $750. No one could.

Yep, he was advertising them for $750. There was no haggling. He had a few to choose from, and I believe they went fairly quickly. It was back in July of this year.

Maybe you haggled and got the price down to $750? I am on the Classifieds (mainly Ball Python and Chameleon) all day every day and I have yet in the past 5 years seen one advertised at that low of a price. Yes it is possible that I missed. I have seen a few at around $900 that were very low colored Pastels but nothing much lower than that. If you did in fact get a good colored Pastel at that low of a price then you are very lucky.
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Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.net
www.oldworldchameleons.com
www.ballpythonmorphs.net

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Signature edited to remove advertising comments.

Edited on January 25, 2004 at 18:03:32 by phwyvern.

I am not trying to lower the 'market value' or upset any BIG breeders but I have sold several male Pastels around the $900 mark. My original breeder male Pastel cost me just under $2K four years ago. He has produced six males and six female Pastels not to mention 1.2 Pastel Het Ghosts. If I only sold the males, at $900 each, that is $5,400 on a $2,000 investment! Once again, I am not trying to lower market prices but I am not going to try and hold out from selling animals as not to piss the BIG guys off. I sell quality animals and I make a great return, that is enough for me. Thanks.

Blake

You Are Sold Out! Thats what we are trying to say here. Those prices $900 are not the true market value if you are selling out that easily.
Your example makes little sense in this ball python market. You are saying that if I buy a Spider male for $20,000 and produce 6.6 Spiders then I should be happy with selling the males for $54,000. You made $5400 on $2000 invested 10 times less than this Spider example. People with Spiders would want to kill you if you sold 6 male Spiders for $54,000.

The person who is selling the animal has every right to sell their animals at the price they wish too. It is their property.
Period. I buy items for the cheapest price I can find. Good shopping ~ good sense. IMHO
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

np

First this is a forum not classifieds.
Second if you know I have a spider you must also know it is a hatchling - so your question is mute.
Also female spiders are not far off this year [03] of the $6,000.00 range.
You must shop. I would say you could get a male this year 2004 for $10,000.00 CASH. Do not know for sure. If I produce them they would go out the door for less than that. Much closer to the price you quoted.
BTW how many people will plunk down $6,000.00 for ant reptile?
High prices means fewer buyers....just like the housing markets.
Happy shopping,
Mr. Overstate
btw what does Ovbious mean?
Did you mean Obvious?
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

What is an ant reptile anyway......lol
should be any....
Happy plowing. I hate snow!
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

Wow, I hope no one sells you another high dollar animal.

Especially after realizing that you only care about your market, selling your snakes, and not the future of the ball python market.

Regards,

Joel

>>First this is a forum not classifieds.
>>Second if you know I have a spider you must also know it is a hatchling - so your question is mute.
>>Also female spiders are not far off this year [03] of the $6,000.00 range.
>>You must shop. I would say you could get a male this year 2004 for $10,000.00 CASH. Do not know for sure. If I produce them they would go out the door for less than that. Much closer to the price you quoted.
>>BTW how many people will plunk down $6,000.00 for ant reptile?
>>High prices means fewer buyers....just like the housing markets.
>>Happy shopping,
>>Mr. Overstate
>>btw what does Ovbious mean?
>>Did you mean Obvious?
>>-----
>>RicK @ BbI
>>
>> Ball Boutique,Inc.
>>The home of the singing snakes!
>>
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- Joel Smith

Email Me!

Now that is funny!!!!
This one post made my day.....
You must work for KPH organization......[Keeping Prices High]
Money talks and you know what walks. I think I am going to look for a platty soon. [04-05] I fell out of love with the stripes.

Now you hurt my feelings and made me feel depressed I better get some counseling now.
...see ya; no need for me to continue my part of thread. Enjoy....
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

First off who would sell you a Platty? Im almost positive Ralph wont, but I could be wrong. And I would hope nobody else would as your only goal is to undercut the market. Second your not really hurting our market as you will sell out very fast. The only thing your hurting is your own wallet. Are you that old that you dont care about the extra money? You must be senile in your old age. Take care and ill visit you at the old foks home.

You mean that if I dangled $30,000.00 in front of Ralph he would say NO. Hell he wanted to sell them for $25,000.00 and I said NO!
I doubt it! But who knows?

First I would go to another breeder and negotiate a price. Some one might sell it for less.

I like selling fast!

Hurting ones wallet? You want your animals in your home or do you want to sell them....you choose! Check pricing!

I pull a pension so this is fun money like 99% of the people in this business! I have all I need for the rest of my life as long as I live.

I may be senile but I am enjoying my life [are you?].
Don't know if I would want YOU to stop by for a visit. Don't know ya can't trust ya!

Answer this:
If I was 15 and produce 3 albinos and sold them for $1,500.00 each would I be happy? Would YOU?
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

I doubt any one breeder will have much effect on the market, at least by the time a particular morph is spread out beyond the first few breeders. If Rick prices his too low when he starts producing them (2005?) then he will sell out real quick. If the market is strong the price will fall slowly.

I'm amazed at how high pastels have stayed in spite of many breeders producing them (one breeder posted about producing 50 of them). Sure spiders will fall but as nice looking as they are they will not be cheap for a while.

That's how free market works. Everyone looking after their own selfish interest. He's free to sell at whatever price he wants to.

Dr.Peter Kim

Second if you know I have a spider you must also know it is a hatchling - so your question is mute.

Why would his question be silent? I thnk perhaps you mean moot?

You are correct sir......got me.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

After a few thoughts I stand corrected and say mute!!!!!!
As in meaning dumb!!!!!!!!
This posting thingies make me think!!!!!!Good for an old mind
Check out link for verification. That was my original intent of using mute=dumb. More PC!!!!!
Now the ball is back in your court.

Entry: mute
Function: adjective
Definition: unspeaking
Synonyms: aphasiac, aphasic, aphonic, dumb, inarticulate, muffled, mum, quiet, silenced, silent, speechless, tongue-tied, tongueless, unexpressed, unpronounced, unsounded, unspeaking, unspoken, voiceless, wordless
Concept: vocalization
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Link

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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

I think they used to call people who were mute (couldn't speak) dumb in the olden days. Not anymore though.

The correct term is still "moot", here's the definition:

adj.
Subject to debate; arguable: a moot question.

Law. Without legal significance, through having been previously decided or settled.
Of no practical importance; irrelevant.

But it is ALL MOOT because you have a spider and I DON'T, LOL!!!! I have to get one this year. But its going to be a LOT of pennies, let me tell you!

Wait....you can get them cheaper in 2005.
mute=dumb
and you can stick that up your trumpet!!!!![mute]

I thought moot was the thing around a castle.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

LOL!

until you get it right.

I have not hatched any babies this year. Have you?
I was speaking of 03 babies that are for sale. I have not seen 04's for sale as of yet.
And yes sometime I put 03 on my checks.......I will proceed to the corner of my room now for an hour.
See ya @ 3:00.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

well then i sure wont say what i got my spider male for.......but i will say prices ARE coming down........yes to keep the price up as long as possable is best for everyone tryin to make a living at this.........BUT and this is for all the "BIG GUYS".......how many of you who paid 25,000 for first offered animals sold them for that same price when you produced them.......prices come down as supply meets demand.......and now all of you who paid those high 20-25k per animal prices should not worry cause youve had the time to be able to establish a breeding group which will produce numbers high enough to still make you that money............so EVERYONE stop worrying what everyone else is selling for and run your own businesses......if a man wants 5,000 for a spider or if a man wants 3,500 for some self proclaimed new morph and thats his business........the money will still find your animals if they are worth it .......best of luck to everyone and their projects in this new season..............Jerry

I bought it from Morph King Reptiles and I actually locked in on the price before the eggs were even layed last year. While the pastel I received isn't drop dead gorgeous, it is still quite a nice looking pastel.

It also turned out that they did not produce the pastel that I bought from them. And since I assume that they are not in this business to lose money, they had to buy the animal for even less then I did.

Yes I have seen classified ads here for less then $850.00 not only this year, but also TWO years ago (which is how I was able to talk Joe into locking in at $700.00 in the first place) The average prices that I remember from two years ago were actually less then I've seen advertised this past year. I think its a tribute to the desireability of this morph to see prices actually on the rise.

Also, many sellers will pull their ads as soon as the snake sells so in the case of really good prices, a lot of the ads have been pulled before most people get a chance to see them, but yes, you can still find some really good deals on pastels.

Personally I would have backed out on the deal that was originally posted myself. Not because of the price, but because of the pictures. (unless I could have seen the animals in person. I've noticed that pastels are difficult to photograph.)

Mark

That does not count. They(MKR) advertised 'we less for less'. but they did not publicly advertise "we are selling Pastels for $700" and yet they were still sold out and had to buy at least one to fill an order.

We are talking about advertising Pastels that low($700-$900) and having enough to support the demand for them at that price. This price is not a true reflection on the true market price if you sell out rather quickly(before you can produce more to sell)