Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, name as you can see from my sn, is James. Just like to introduce myself, if you would like to skip right to the monitor question I wanted to ask, please skip this paragraph and proceed on to the one right underneath. Anyways, I'm new to monitors and it took me many years and many steps from different animals to finally step foot into keeping a monitor. It was rodents, then cats, then dogs, then fish, then my dog, then bugs, and finally my monitor, some other animals in between but wasn't included. I got my asian monitor on the day my dog died and because of him I made it this far. The day my dog died devastated me, I loved him more than the air I breathed and the soil I stand on now.

I got a couple of questions about my monitor and about asian monitors overall.

1/ I had my Salvator for nearly 5 months now. I got him as a baby of about 11 inches long and he is now about 21 inches, is that above, below, or at a normal growth speed for most well fed, well housed monitors?

2/ I'm unsure when to change the water, everytime he craps in it or what? I change it when it gets a bit dark but I dont know if it is okay and changing it whenever it gets slightly dirty means everyday. Its two gallons and pulling it out of the tank is back breaking.

3/ This summer I'm planning to build a 8' long 3' wide 5' high wooden cage in the house, is that okay for him permanently? I know some people build it a lot bigger, but any bigger and I have to put the cage outside and its like 35-40 F in the Winter and 100 F in the Summer ends. Help?

Hope someone helps, thanks anyway. Bye.

Id rethink how big of a cage it needs as they can reach or exceed 10 feet (on rare occaisions). Re consider these things as to the animals future they require alot of space and it seems your husbandry needs some adjusting. I believe they hatch at 13 inches long, so it should be growing alot faster with proper husbandry. Ask John A as he is the water monitor guy.

Just curious as to how you apply this into everyones setups etc.

You say if they are kept properly they can reach 6 foot in a year?? How many times has this happened?? I just wonder cause i see you are all over the place with these examples of monitors should be this or that at this age. Are you pulling this from the sky or do you have a reference to this? Who did this research on captive monitors and proper setups and growths?

Do all monitors have the potential to grow to great sizes? or are they indeed individuals where one water monitor may grow this size and another may be smaller? Does a female have the same potential to be 6 foot within a year or is it only a male??

Please enlighten me and the rest of us with your deep knowledge of growth within the captive realm of monitors.

Sorry if this sounds like I am being a jerk, I just thought someone needed to call you out on this as it was getting out of hand.

You aggree with it? Bad mood are we? If your looking for an arguement or to start problems go elsewhere,Im responding to this once and done.

"ust curious as to how you apply this into everyones setups etc.
ou say if they are kept properly they can reach 6 foot in a year?? How many times has this happened?? "

1)It happens on a regular basis if you just look around, after all they can become an adult in 1 year if cared for correctly, ouve agreed to that before also. Just ask John A for one of many references. After all its normal growth potential, especially for a male, come on 21 inches long at 5 months, thats even close to proper care?? I could find a million references to proper growth in a salvator.

"just wonder cause i see you are all over the place with these examples of monitors should be this or that at this age. Are you pulling this from the sky or do you have a reference to this? Who did this research on captive monitors and proper setups and growths?"

2) again talkin out your butt, you aggree one day and argue against it the next, if your looking to troll go harass someone else.

Do all monitors have the potential to grow to great sizes? or are they indeed individuals where one water monitor may grow this size and another may be smaller? Does a female have the same potential to be 6 foot within a year or is it only a male??

Please enlighten me and the rest of us with your deep knowledge of growth within the captive realm of monitors.

3)Now you say the "rest of us"as to try to bring others into this as agreeing with you, hmmm pitiful.

Sorry if this sounds like I am being a jerk, I just thought someone needed to call you out on this as it was getting out of
hand.

4)Yes you are just being a jerk this time, the only thing your calling out is your own bad attitude. As I said if your having a bad day dont bring it on here. Your the only one out of hand,and tell me where Im posting everywhere lately on this "shoul be this size and so on"??

about a salvator being 21 inches at 5 months old not being kept under proper conditions. Both my juvies are kept under what I believe to be near ideal conditions and growing steadily at about 2 inches per month. My larger one I bought in early September at approx. 14" TL and he/she is now approx. 26" TL. My smaller one I acquired in late November at about 14" TL also and is now about 18" TL. Let's figure they were both one to two months old at time of purchase. They live together (happily) in a 7.5' x 3' x 3' plywood and plexi cage with basking temps around 130 and cool end temps around upper 70's daytime with a range of temps available everywhere between those two temps. They have about 4-5" of dirt in the enclosure and dig and burrow regularly. They are offered food daily (and usually eat daily) in the form of f/t rodents, superworms, crickets and vit./min. supplemented ground turkey and ground chicken. They are also soaked on a weekly basis. I have raised several other Waters and Niles that all had similar growth rates (although I think Niles may grow a little quicker on average). So I don't know how you can make a statement like that when I don't believe you have ever even raised a Water yourself. But feel free to critique my conditions. It's also fairly common knowledge that Waters in general will reach adult/breeding size (though not their full potential) by two years old and not one, like some other smaller species. Enjoy this picture of my two stunted babies. LOL!! Billy

"It's also fairly common knowledge that Waters in general will reach adult/breeding size (though not their full potential) by two years old and not one, like some other smaller species."

1)Where did ya learn that from? Really, interesting because I can name some folks here who have (let me correct this) 5-6 foot waters in one years time (average, not just one case either), and its common knowledge that small species of monitor can reproduce at 6-8 months old, where as medium to large species can do this at 8 months to a year old in captivity.

" Enjoy this picture of my two stunted babies. LOL!! Billy"

2) haha, funny, Normal growth is 1-2 inches or more a week for the first year. Even an inch a week from birth is 52 inches in the first year of growth plus 13, =65 inches, almost 5 and a half feet at a year old. The CBB waters Ive seen on here as examples grew that fast and faster.

"I can't recall ever hearing of a 1 year old, 6 foot salvator".

3)In the past year theres 2 on here that are easy reference, Genes water was over 5ft at a year, Alex Smith has a few waters that grew 6ft in a year, yes he posted pics of them plenty of times in the past, Im sure I could find many others as examples on here alone. We had a discussion awhile back on waters and size, several individuals posted pics of them here that were supposed to be 5-6ft at a year old.

"SHvar, you love to post rhetoric on these forums with no backup, just like the tail-whipping, leg-breaking incident."

4)Maybe I should post the emailed info I sent to you on that subject, but I wont put those peoples info address etc on a public forum. I after all I gave you 2 police departments, the business it happened at, address, name of the owner, name of the animal, and a police chief involved name. But no, I didnt back up what I said, right, get a life.

"I asked you for a date so I could verify that incident with the other sources you listed, but you never offered it."

5)I wasnt there when it happened, but the people who were I gave you their names and contact info, do your own research.

"Basically, put up or shut up. I am one of the others that gets tired of hearing you spew non-verifiable "facts". Billy "

I verified my facts how about you? I gave names in every post and responce, I gave specific instances, in every post and to the email you sent about verifying info on that incident. Now your talkin out your butt, check on my sources, I put the ball in your court Im not gonna verify it for you, how do you learn anything if you wont do your own research? A quote from you "put up or shut up".
Im done with this responce also, bye now. This is a waste of forum, go try starting fights with someone else. Im not to argue with trolls.

First of all, reread my post - I did not state 1-2 inches per WEEK, it was per MONTH. That would put them at around 3-4 feet depending on neonate size (let's round it out to 12). Secondly, Gene's big male, Yoshi is over two years old and is at around 5 1/2 feet. You're gonna tell me he grew to 5 feet in his first year and has only grown 6 inches in the last year plus? Maybe, but unlikely. Gene can you verify? As far as the info. you sent in the email, it was all spotty and I requested a date so I could at least give the police department a rough estimate of the date to search. You're telling me you can not even give me a month and year??? As far as doing my own research, it was not a request for clues to a mystery (although that's what I feel like I got from you), I asked for a way to verify a story you told and you did not provide me with that. YOU have to prove to me what you said is true. You are the one making the claim. Until then, I will believe it's BS. Give me more info. and I will gladly follow up, but what you gave me was not enough to prove anything. By the way, you gave me a township name that doesn't have any governmental info. on the internet and a police chief's name as well as the owner of a pet shop that is no longer in business. You did NOT give me any phone numbers or addresses. I will gladly forward the email to you or anyone else interested so they can see what I'm talking about. Give me a phone number, or scan and post a newspaper clipping or police report, anything concrete. Again, put up or shut up! I was not looking to learn ANYTHING from you so don't throw the "how are you going to learn anything" horse pucky around. Once again, YOU have to prove what you're saying is correct, not me. Make me a believer. I am not the only one on these forums (and others) that questions you and your "sources", so please, if you're going to offer information that may not be common knowledge, back it up with VERIFIABLE facts and not ambiguous references. Billy

>>"It's also fairly common knowledge that Waters in general will reach adult/breeding size (though not their full potential) by two years old and not one, like some other smaller species."
>>
>>1)Where did ya learn that from? Really, interesting because I can name some folks here who have (let me correct this) 5-6 foot waters in one years time (average, not just one case either), and its common knowledge that small species of monitor can reproduce at 6-8 months old, where as medium to large species can do this at 8 months to a year old in captivity.
>>
>>" Enjoy this picture of my two stunted babies. LOL!! Billy"
>>
>>2) haha, funny, Normal growth is 1-2 inches or more a week for the first year. Even an inch a week from birth is 52 inches in the first year of growth plus 13, =65 inches, almost 5 and a half feet at a year old. The CBB waters Ive seen on here as examples grew that fast and faster.
>>
>>"I can't recall ever hearing of a 1 year old, 6 foot salvator".
>>
>>3)In the past year theres 2 on here that are easy reference, Genes water was over 5ft at a year, Alex Smith has a few waters that grew 6ft in a year, yes he posted pics of them plenty of times in the past, Im sure I could find many others as examples on here alone. We had a discussion awhile back on waters and size, several individuals posted pics of them here that were supposed to be 5-6ft at a year old.
>>
>> "SHvar, you love to post rhetoric on these forums with no backup, just like the tail-whipping, leg-breaking incident."
>>
>>4)Maybe I should post the emailed info I sent to you on that subject, but I wont put those peoples info address etc on a public forum. I after all I gave you 2 police departments, the business it happened at, address, name of the owner, name of the animal, and a police chief involved name. But no, I didnt back up what I said, right, get a life.
>>
>>"I asked you for a date so I could verify that incident with the other sources you listed, but you never offered it."
>>
>>5)I wasnt there when it happened, but the people who were I gave you their names and contact info, do your own research.
>>
>> "Basically, put up or shut up. I am one of the others that gets tired of hearing you spew non-verifiable "facts". Billy "
>>
>>I verified my facts how about you? I gave names in every post and responce, I gave specific instances, in every post and to the email you sent about verifying info on that incident. Now your talkin out your butt, check on my sources, I put the ball in your court Im not gonna verify it for you, how do you learn anything if you wont do your own research? A quote from you "put up or shut up".
>>Im done with this responce also, bye now. This is a waste of forum, go try starting fights with someone else. Im not to argue with trolls.

First Jody was not arguing the record length, just your sources for "proper" growth rates of captive V. salvator. Since you say there are references everywhere about salvators reaching 6 feet in a year, it should be easy for you to list more than a few verifiable ones. I can't recall ever hearing of a 1 year old, 6 foot salvator. SHvar, you love to post rhetoric on these forums with no backup, just like the tail-whipping, leg-breaking incident. I asked you for a date so I could verify that incident with the other sources you listed, but you never offered it. Basically, put up or shut up. I am one of the others that gets tired of hearing you spew non-verifiable "facts". Billy

>>You aggree with it? Bad mood are we? If your looking for an arguement or to start problems go elsewhere,Im responding to this once and done.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"ust curious as to how you apply this into everyones setups etc.
>>ou say if they are kept properly they can reach 6 foot in a year?? How many times has this happened?? "
>>
>>1)It happens on a regular basis if you just look around, after all they can become an adult in 1 year if cared for correctly, ouve agreed to that before also. Just ask John A for one of many references. After all its normal growth potential, especially for a male, come on 21 inches long at 5 months, thats even close to proper care?? I could find a million references to proper growth in a salvator.
>>
>>
>>"just wonder cause i see you are all over the place with these examples of monitors should be this or that at this age. Are you pulling this from the sky or do you have a reference to this? Who did this research on captive monitors and proper setups and growths?"
>>
>>2) again talkin out your butt, you aggree one day and argue against it the next, if your looking to troll go harass someone else.
>>
>>Do all monitors have the potential to grow to great sizes? or are they indeed individuals where one water monitor may grow this size and another may be smaller? Does a female have the same potential to be 6 foot within a year or is it only a male??
>>
>>Please enlighten me and the rest of us with your deep knowledge of growth within the captive realm of monitors.
>>
>>3)Now you say the "rest of us"as to try to bring others into this as agreeing with you, hmmm pitiful.
>>
>>Sorry if this sounds like I am being a jerk, I just thought someone needed to call you out on this as it was getting out of
>>hand.
>>
>>4)Yes you are just being a jerk this time, the only thing your calling out is your own bad attitude. As I said if your having a bad day dont bring it on here. Your the only one out of hand,and tell me where Im posting everywhere lately on this "shoul be this size and so on"??

Please show me this. Also you say adult size in a year hmm I would even call John A. out on that one. To say adult size that must mean they are 6 foot and 50 lbs. at one year of age. Now show me proof not he said she said. I don't give a crap what he said or she said.

You also said 21 inches long at 5 months?? that would meanthe other 7 months it would have to grow another 51 inches. That would put growth rate at around 7 inches a month for the last 7 months.

I am not a troll nor am I talking out of my butt. I am not the onemaking false statements without backing them up. I am simply asking where the growth charts are on these records you keep moaning about?? I am not even the hostile one here you are. i asked a question and your getting all bent about it. hmmm I wonder why Mr. Smart Guy.

haha rest of us as in the rest of the people reading this crap you mutter, and the poor guy with a 4 foot 1 year old water wondering how he stunted it. Your the one naming names trying to bring people in to back you up not me.

I always have this attitude don't like it?? Haha too bad
You posted about a sav. about this water, etc. just look down a bit. You spew so much knowledge I just ask for it to be backed up.

It's guys like you with you records that bring me with piles of emails from people asking wh there monitors are not so large, why they are stunted and how it can happen.

I don't think it is right for you to say this water is stunted cause it is 4 foot and not 6 foot. If there has been ones reaching 6 foot good for them but it does not mean they all will or can reach that. They are not all exact copies of one another, there is size variance within adults if there wasnt all of them in the wild would be the exact same size monkey boy.

So please all I ask is that you keep it real not this black and white tunnel vision you seem to have. The size your monitor is, or how fast it grows, should have little to do with being that important to you. Instead try putting all that energy into it being normal, healthy and lviing out a full life. If you achieve that then great who cares if you have a 4 foot water or a 10 foot water.

Again not every monitor has the potential to reach an extreme size for it's kind so to go by that opne extreme animals growth you may never see another grow that way. So instead you should go by the normal or average. I do not know if there is a growth chart someplace showing captive waters and how much they should or need to grow. Thats what i asked you about cause you seem to have this chart?? If not then your giving false statements is all.

I could go on but your probly not understanding and will only get more irrate. So i will end it here my friend.

"My two cents and the rest of the piggy bank"

"So please all I ask is that you keep it real not this black and white tunnel vision you seem to have."

At no point in time did I say anything about they have to be this size exactly at this age or they are stunted etc. One post down I corrected someone that said their bosc was stunted by telling them they grow in proper conditions, they dont stunt. I said they can reach or exceed a certain size at 1 year old if given proper resources.

"The size your monitor is, or how fast it grows, should have little to do with being that important to you. Instead try putting all that energy into it being normal, healthy and lviing out a full life. If you achieve that then great who cares if you have a 4 foot water or a 10 foot water."

I agree, if you put your energy into enjoying and properly caring for your monitor it will grow at astonishing rates on its own, no assistance needed.

SHvar

I believe you're probably talking about V. komodeonsis, which can be around 9ft or longer. I never heard of an asian water monitor being 10ft or longer, largest water monitor on record is about 9 ft long and from what I read they usually reach only about 6-7ft long. Thanks anyway, I hope he will find this post and respond to it.

James

The record was 10ft 3 inches for a V.salvator (it probably wasnt 100 lbs) beating the record length of a komodo that was 10ft 2 inches from 1927 I believe. Go ahead research and find out, also a few years ago Reptile mag referenced this 10ft 3in water, where and when it was caught and by who etc,etc. John A mentioned 10ft 4 inches also I believe.

Hi ALL,

Here is what I wrote a few days ago on XL salvators and other bigg ones:

record sizes - V.salvator, V.salvadorii, V. komodoensis, megalania

Posted by: mkbay at Fri Jan 23 19:12:00 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Hi Shvar and JohnA.,

John, we have spoke of this many times; I wrote about the maximum lengths in Reptilian magazine a few years ago on the Editorial pages: 10'3" salvator was shot in Sri Lanka by Captain (later Major) S. Stanley and deposited into the British Museum Natural History. The largest komodo dragon (V. komodoensis) was 10'3" by Burton on his 1927 trip. Burden's komodo was collected and sailed (by mishap) to Washington State instead of San Diego, caught pneumonia and died shortly there-after. Its stuffed mount floated around for decades, and ended up in Tilden Park Regional Park, in Berkeley, CA for ~15 years or so in their foyer/lobby.
They got tired of it and a bar in Los Angeles bought it and took down to Los Angeles via pick-up truck; Los Angeles Natural History Museum apparently got wind of it, and got it from the bar owner - and it is now in LANHM. Its a beautiful mount and nicely displayed, and is in fact 10'2" - I measured it while it was here in Tilden Park (10 minutes from me - John, you remember the park, the place where I almost died walking up that hill, that I still cannot walk up w/out having a respiratory attack~).

As for V. salvadorii, the largest known male was owned by Ron St. Pierre in the early 90's. I photographed and measured him at 8'3". There is a larger male at Brownsville Zoo, one of their parents to the several hatchlings they have had, and he is over 10 feet total length. However, V. salvadorii does not even close to the wight of V. salvator and V. komodoensis...

and then there are the various nebulous reports of giant goannas in PNG and Africa which exceed 9 feet, and although the species' in question are still unknown, I do know that at least 2 do actually exist in Africa, and the circumstantial evidence for the thing in PNG, alhough sometimes vague, are found buried in books of exploration/ethnology/colonial Rule and enlightening to say the least...

cheers,
markb

I read that before, but did these extremes happen in 1 year??

Thats what I was asking proof of. I wanted shvar to show me proof of an average size for a water monitor to reach 6 foot in 1 years time. I wanted to see a chart with captive waters kept by various people, then I wanted it to show the growth rates in a years time. If he is correct then they should average to be 6 foot.

I find that highly unlikely to be the case and wanted proof, I got no proof. All I got is more words.

I just didnt think it was right for him to have some joe schmoe out there with a 4 foot yearling water thinking he did not offer it the best conditions.

I hope my point came across but maybe it did not? i am not sure how else to explain this.

Oh and hey my male salvadori was 8 foot 4 inches why is he not the record?? I have proof I measured him at 101 inches long tip to tip. I even sent you pics of him i believe. I wish he hadn't of died. I need to get another one for my girl.

Take care

Hi Jody,

No those measurements are not for a single year - just maximum records...and your right if salvator do reach 6 foot in a year then that would be the average; perhaps they but skin trade animals hunting are more like 3.5, and growth records there do not support the 6 ft/year growth for wild populations - maybe 100 years ago they did when they were only hunted for food, but skin trade has wiped out so much, so many animals everywhere...
(Luxmore & Groombridge, 1990).

cheers Jody,
markb

Mark Bayless and John A were referenced in this discussion.
Link

2 inches or so per month for the first year is more of an average with a little slowing in the second year on. 3-4 feet in the first year is probably a good figure to shoot for/expect with a well-fed, properly housed salvator. SHvar, do you know someone who has raised one (or several) to 6 feet in one year?? I'd love to see pics of that monster! An animal like that would truly have the potential to reach 9 feet or more (mainlaind Asian or Sri Lankan probably). Billy

>>Id rethink how big of a cage it needs as they can reach or exceed 10 feet (on rare occaisions). Re consider these things as to the animals future they require alot of space and it seems your husbandry needs some adjusting. I believe they hatch at 13 inches long, so it should be growing alot faster with proper husbandry. Ask John A as he is the water monitor guy.

I am not getting involved in all the crap going on here. However, I would put forth that all the salvator offspring I produced that I have been able to follow up on were between 3-4 feet at one year. Stevie, one of the ones I kept, was a bit over 4 feet. Dragon, another I kept, was at 3 - 3.5 feet. I would certainly propose that I had them setup in healthy, good environments.

I have never heard of a 6 foot yearling. I am not saying it has never happened, but I would question how often it occurs. It would seem like an anomoly to me. It is wise to be prepared for such an occurence, however, in my salvator experience a 3-4 foot yearling is not a sign of mistreatment or stunting or anything improper.

In that light, a 21 inch salvator at 5 months might be a tad slow/small, but not catastrophic.

But what do I know...

(I know I am getting another clutch in a few weeks and having another clutch hatch next month)
Salvators

-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^

1.Check out pro exotics web site. They have a very informative article concerning subjects in question as well as many others.
2.That enclosure will do, but ultimately it is on the small side.Go as big as you possibly can. Maybe you have a basement where you could frame in a potion and provide him/her with adaquete roaming room. Very big herp, very big enclosure.
3.In my opinion, if you wouldn't drink the water maybe your herp shouldn't either.Maybe in the future you could install a drain plug/shutoff valve to facilitate ease off empting said water container,thus saving your back.That two gallon container will only suffice for a very brief point in time.
4.New to forum not to herps, but not an "expert" either. Reserch,
there is alot of good info availiable. Some bad info as well,one
has to learn to discard the unsound/unsage advice,literature. Reputeable sources like the above mentioned,is a good start.

Heres some "advice" for your water container. Buy a submersible water pump/filter. This will keep your water cleaner longer. Also, I use a small fish net to remove solid waste from the
container when I can. Usually in the morning as thats my water dragons routine. Lastly I use a lenth of tubing attached to my pump/filter discharge adapter enabling me to pump majority of water into a bucket, thus making my herp keeping a little easier,this leaves me more time to enjoy them. This works for me, give it some thought.

hey guys,
about 6 feet in one year- i have seen this happen with albigs (miner, but not salvator, but 5 feet is common for larger local salvators. steeve b told me he expects large salvators to grow 6 feet in 1 year (as in sumatrans, or javans). alot of growth occurs when the cage environment allows, food is abundant, stress level is low. i make sure i feed baby waters everyday, change water everyday, make sure temps are toasty (82-90 thru cage) humidity is high, and YOU arent scaring the crap out of it every 5 minutes. your lizards growth is slow compared to my animals, but i keep a smaller type of salvator (sulfurs and cumingis). i have one sulfur that hit 5 feet in 1 year and 6 months. another is 1 year and 4 months and hasnt passed 4 feet yet. both eat like champs, but overall genetics and stress level play a role in the end.
can you tell us more about your feeding, and routine, environment, and stuff??? -john
cybersalvator.com

Okay, I hope to make this a little bit clearer in hopes of stopping this argument. SHvar and John B, the records for longest monitors, etc, is probably believable but on account of Jody and Billy, what I believe they are saying is, you need evidence to back up what you say, such as dated pictures, articles, a website stating that 5-6 ft a year is possible, and whatever else. I must say, I've never heard of a monitor growing from 12-13 inches to 6ft in 1 year, probably 3-4ft, I've heard. I've also asked some professionals in monitors and they always tell me that it would take about 3 years or so to reach 7ft as the larger they are the slower they tend to grow and I got to say, 6ft in one year and 7ft in 3 years contains a large gap and since I'm new to monitors, I must say I'm now confused about the facts, lol.

Now to answer some things. Clint, I've also thought about a waterfilter for it but the reason I didn't install one is because of the size of one and because all it really does is filter the solid waste and doesn't really get rid all else. I've tried it before and that is where I come up with this fact. I don't have a basement and trust me if I did I would use it by now and would have finished the cage way before now.

And John B, my 21 inch monitor lives in a 100 gallon tank and I'm currently building one at the moment. It is 75-85F in there and the basking spot is 110F. The humidity is seldom lower than 70 and usually is about 80-90. I feed him daily or until he is fat. I include vitamin suppliments from ZooMeds and ReptoCal and some foods include fish, worms, snales, mice, chicken, low fat cat food, some cooked items (boiled), and crickets. Mealworms aren't taken for some reason. He has a tank inside that he can submerge in and actually swim and drink from and I change it every 2 days or so. So please assist my further and thanks for the help once again.

JamesDarec

Here's what I can offer - I would up the temps a little, especially the basking site. 120-130 would be better, and they will use it. Ambients that reach well into the 90's will be used as well, but make sure that they have a good gradient in there. If you don't have one, get a temp gun and use it. One of the best things you can buy for your animal. It's nice to know every inch of your animal's enclosure at any given time, instantly. Unfortunately, I don't have any good info. for the water container, other than change it often. I change mine at least once a day with a good scrubbing with soap at least twice a week. Luckily, my enclosure is in the garage so I only have to lug the water pan a short distance to dump it in the garden. Then I drag the hose into the garage for the fillup. Other than upping your temps, I would say you're OK. If you haven't already, check out John A.'s site at cybersalvator.com. Lots of good info. there. Best of luck with your little one and post some pics! Billy

>>Okay, I hope to make this a little bit clearer in hopes of stopping this argument. SHvar and John B, the records for longest monitors, etc, is probably believable but on account of Jody and Billy, what I believe they are saying is, you need evidence to back up what you say, such as dated pictures, articles, a website stating that 5-6 ft a year is possible, and whatever else. I must say, I've never heard of a monitor growing from 12-13 inches to 6ft in 1 year, probably 3-4ft, I've heard. I've also asked some professionals in monitors and they always tell me that it would take about 3 years or so to reach 7ft as the larger they are the slower they tend to grow and I got to say, 6ft in one year and 7ft in 3 years contains a large gap and since I'm new to monitors, I must say I'm now confused about the facts, lol.
>>
>>Now to answer some things. Clint, I've also thought about a waterfilter for it but the reason I didn't install one is because of the size of one and because all it really does is filter the solid waste and doesn't really get rid all else. I've tried it before and that is where I come up with this fact. I don't have a basement and trust me if I did I would use it by now and would have finished the cage way before now.
>>
>>And John B, my 21 inch monitor lives in a 100 gallon tank and I'm currently building one at the moment. It is 75-85F in there and the basking spot is 110F. The humidity is seldom lower than 70 and usually is about 80-90. I feed him daily or until he is fat. I include vitamin suppliments from ZooMeds and ReptoCal and some foods include fish, worms, snales, mice, chicken, low fat cat food, some cooked items (boiled), and crickets. Mealworms aren't taken for some reason. He has a tank inside that he can submerge in and actually swim and drink from and I change it every 2 days or so. So please assist my further and thanks for the help once again.
>>
>>JamesDarec

Hey Billy,
First I'm not going to give you a bunch of excuses and reasons why I can't do that because it won't help. I really wish I can post some pictures or get a temperature gun, but I don't have enough money to spare for it. Paying for college books with bumped up prices, paying rent, paying the internet, gas, electric, etc, bills. And I'm currently jobless. And I got a monitor to take care of. You know, I think you guys are really lucky for some of the things you can have, its really lame being poor, but I'm trying really hard to get a good job one day to get out of it. I thought I could have given my monitor everything. You know why my dog died? He died because I couldn't pay the freaken vet bills to give him the surgury he needed. The thing I loved the most and it died beneath my arms 4 oClock in the morning because I couldn't handle the bills, I would have given him my life just for him to live another day in happiness. I've already set $1000 for my lizard to prevent anything like that from happening again. I suppose I can't really do much now until I build him another cage. Life really blows and I hope you guys cherish what you have at the present.

James

James, my response was not meant to be any kind of lecture, just helpful suggestions. Also, for the record, I raised many monitors of several different species under conditions very similar to yours back in the early 90's, and they were fine. Yours should be too, but there is always room for improvement so when your financial state improves, you will have some goals already set. Oh yeah, life does not blow as long as you get up every morning with a healthy body and a sound mind (trust me on this). Plus you have extras like a computer and new baby salvator! Can't be that bad man! It sucks losing a dog or any pet for that matter - I know from experience, but life goes on so try and concentrate on the good things and the rest will work itself out. Wow, sorry to sound like a therapist, but you sounded a little down in your post. Best of luck. Billy

>>Hey Billy,
>>First I'm not going to give you a bunch of excuses and reasons why I can't do that because it won't help. I really wish I can post some pictures or get a temperature gun, but I don't have enough money to spare for it. Paying for college books with bumped up prices, paying rent, paying the internet, gas, electric, etc, bills. And I'm currently jobless. And I got a monitor to take care of. You know, I think you guys are really lucky for some of the things you can have, its really lame being poor, but I'm trying really hard to get a good job one day to get out of it. I thought I could have given my monitor everything. You know why my dog died? He died because I couldn't pay the freaken vet bills to give him the surgury he needed. The thing I loved the most and it died beneath my arms 4 oClock in the morning because I couldn't handle the bills, I would have given him my life just for him to live another day in happiness. I've already set $1000 for my lizard to prevent anything like that from happening again. I suppose I can't really do much now until I build him another cage. Life really blows and I hope you guys cherish what you have at the present.
>>
>>James

You may want to up the basking temps I use 130-150, your ambients sound ok to me. Onto the cage itself, tanks work ok for raising little ones but they do not offer the square footage they need. They do offer alot of length however.

Making the new cage sounds like a good idea to me and you'll notice more growth. They grow throughout there lives, I have yet to see any reptile stop unless it is dead.

You may find some waters growin gto 5-6 foot in a year, but that is probly to the extremes. Most I see are 3-5 foot in a years time. That would be a better all around average and not based on a few people. They do not reach adult size in a year, they may reach 3-5 foot 10 or so lbs. but not 5-6 foot and 50 lbs. in a year. They can reach sexual maturity and be bred at a young age. But this does not mean they need to be full out adult size to do so. I have been working with monitors for a long time, especially waters. I have babies, mid size, and large currently.

Good luck with yours,
Jody

I don't keep salvators..... but....

Moves to larger cages have often resulted in growth spurts in my younger jobiensis. Whether this is a lessening of stress, better available options, or coincidence, I don't really know.

--Robert

HATCHLING TO 6 FOOT- mr. neil miner in sacramento, cali in 2001. albig imported at hatchling size, sent to neil, fed apple snails outdoors, and grew incredibly long and heavy, while another raised within the same outdoor cage and fed same food reached 4.5 feet. i have a pic at home. mark bayless has the info/details im sure. this same man raised a speckled water to top 6 feet which i havent heard of a size greater than that salvator-type yet- from anyone else. my male sulfur grew from 13 inch hatchling to 4 feet in 12 months (may 2002- may 2003. thats almost 36 inches in that time, all without a high temp basking area, just maintained 82-90 ambient. the tiger sulfur i have was raised same way but has not had a great increase in length. from a 14 inch baby to aprox 38 inches in a year. she is now 46" or so.
i think record size and explosive growth counts on many factors. didnt i mention that earlier today hmmm?
your set up sounds like what i had for a few months to raise the babies in before transferring to a larger enclosure. what i do is feed the [bleep] out of them,a nd measure them every month so i know for sure theres something happening. but i wonder what happens at nite or during times where cage temp fluctuates? i keep my heat constant 24 -7 365. never shut it or lower it. and as for humidity, it is easily lost in vents, spaces or evaporates from heat source. more about growth: im caring for someones 4 year old sulfur at home for a year now. this animal is small -40 inches, nasty and never grew in my care. stunted? maybe, reversable? not sure. it has been a problematic feeder since acquisition. ooops havta go to a meeting. -John A

Dont forget the (march 2003 hatched) Ionides named Hewey who has just hit 48" despite being deathly ill for nearly 3 mo. of that time. One can only speculate what his size would have been if not faced with illness.

Hi sumherper,

You can be sick and still be "big"; one does not necessarily negate the other...

cheers,
mbayless

Its a proven fact that all (except maybe Komodos, not sure with them) monitors can reproduce at between 6 months to a year old, this means young adult, this doesnt mean full grown as they grow thoughout their entire life.
My current female albig was 5ft at a year old (smaller species than most salvators), at 2 years old she exceeded 6ft, she didnt weigh as much as past claims Ive heard of (6-7ft and 53lbs), she weighs 24lbs and seems a bit heavy to me. Ive had albigs in the past male and female that were imported, were skinny covered in ticks, had worms bad, were from 2ft to 3 ft long, but in 3-4 months time were normal weight for their size and were 4-4.5 ft long. I believe that a cage should be kept to a size that makes taking care of the animal easier, but not to be uncomfortable for them to live in at their size. I wouldnt put a small monitor into a cage for an adult until they get closer to that size as it makes it easier to care for them. I like using multiple cages and changing them as they grow, it works for me.
As for proving anything to them, I tried, they just want to argue, and get belligerant.
As I said earlier to someone 1 post down, monitors dont stunt from bad husbandry, when improved they grow for what resources are offered to them, although I was accused of saying they are stunted for life. Im trying to help you out and point you to someone who can help you, as I said John A, Steeve Blain, Mark Bayless, they can help you more with waters. Im into African monitors personally, I was offered 3 water monitor males (free) that were all right around a year old over the years that were 5-5.5 feet long and turned them down because I dont have room for something that can be 9 ft and 50-100 lbs, I also dont want a water monitor, a friend of mine has 2 right now and I help care for them occaisionally, but waters just dont appeal to me that much. Good luck, they can grow fast, alot faster than you would believe.

James I feel for you man. I am a college student too last year coming up thank god. Taking care of school, books, rooming and the monitors is tough I cant say I have the parental problems you do but I get into scuffles here and there with my parents. I want to open up a reptile shop/tropical fish as they are my two passions. My parents think its a joke, but I still want to do it. So I gotta think real hard how it is going to happen. I already did some surveys and my area seems pretty intrested in it the idea (northern Ca) so hopefully itll happen and my parents will come around and support me and all will be well and ill blow the local petco out of the water because they suck at keeping herps. Anyways I know its hard I have two flavi crosses and a 200 gallon reef tank I take care of with the homework etc,.... so good luck keep ur head up and when u graduate all will be well if bush doesnt F$$%$ whats left of our economy

later dude

Heh, just came back from school, I cheered up a bit, glade to know there is someone out there that kind of feels what I feel. One time this girl in the chat room was talking about suicide, so I thought her problem was worst then mines and I found out later its because she didn't get to talk on the phone, rich people...they suffer differently. Anyhow, Flav, its a knock having parents that wonder why I'm a failer and all the encourgement they give me is, oh you're not going to graduate in 7 years, or your going to become a homeless I know it, or your a waste of food and water while my dad freaken laughs. Its also extremely hard to try if I'm unsure about my future, I mean if I get kicked out, I'm screwed, no place to live, how am I going to go to school, wouldn't everything become a waste? I know I can succeed, I too, also want to have a petshop, hey Flav, maybe me and you can be partners and run it and hire people, you have the same dream as me. I want to make a petshop where they have huge inclosures for the herps and the shop is huge like a warehouse or something. And next to it is a pet vet. I got major ideas man, I plan to wipe all the competition. I plan to make the petshop like some kind of park where people can also hang out and play/feed the animals and buy stuff. Complete with books and video to show how to keep each successfully. I know its a big dream, but if everything happens right, I know it can happen. So how about it Flav, if you're sincere and you want to make this dream possible? Cause I can help. I got some other cool ideas as well, tell me how you feel about it. Laterz.

JamesDarec

Hey James that would be cool but I am going to throw some caution in the wind here. It is good dream and your plans are good, but in reality it is a lot of money to open one up without using loans. I am on the west coast where are you situated? If you are far from here would be willing to pack up and leave? We would also have to talk alot more and become friends first before anything just to be on the safe side? You never know people these days.... I could be running a scam or you could too so we both gotta be sure we are legit with no side plans you feel me .....I am sincere but I am also safe its a lot of money and if I do have a partner he is going to be legit

Yeah I understand what you mean, don't worry, where I live you usually don't trust no one until you know them inside and out. It was just an idea I set up for the time being, not meant as jumping in in a hurry. Anyhow, about that big shop I was talking about futurize, I've thought about it way ahead of ya. My plan is to start small and slowly head upwards and the big warehouse I was talking about, that would be later on using the money from what we earned from the previous store. We might not even start with a petshop opening, but I'll discuss it with you further later on when you choose. I live in Oakland, CA. I always wanted to do this since like, forever, but never could find the right person, they're either not interested or don't have the guts or the business mind enough to actually do much.

So before we go on I would like you to know that I am no fool and I've planned it out step by step, I learn from other previous petshop owners mistakes, that was the main goal of why I worked at a petshop before. I know simply planning wouldn't guarante success, but I want dreams to become a reality and I'm tired of simply dreaming about things. If you're still interested we'll talk further. I have to go to class now, its in 30 minutes and I got to get ready and get to the bart station. Later Flavi.

James

Hey James youre from the O thats cool im right around the way in Fremont but i go to st marys near the Berkley hills. You got a salvator is that all youre keeping currently? Where do you go to school since you get there by the bart? Anyways ya its cool I just like to be cautious lots of scammers out there (not sayingg you are) anyways what part of the O are you from maybe we can hook up and kick it go to east bay or something

later

Yeah, the only thing I'm keeping currently, I would say are 6 mice, a freaken Chinese fighting fish which is owned by my mom, and my monitor. When I was younger I kept a lot more. Anyhow, I go to Vista next to Berkeley. I didn't wanted to go to any of the CSU's cause I thought going to school and living at home with the pre-cooked meals, etc, would be cheaper. You shouldn't worry about being scammed just yet because we haven't taken any steps to start anything yet. Hey, do you got yahoo messenger or AIM? Cause I can set up an account and we can talk, cause talking like this blows. Anyways, I just got home, I hate, HATE precalculus! I failed it in highschool lol and all I needed was a D. Anyways, post here and I'll read it in a bit, just going to play with my lizard for a short period. Later.

James

am09637 is my aim hit me up

First off, I'm not touching the size question.....geez

For water, I plan to get a rubbermaid stocktank. They have a 1.5" valve in the bottom. I plan to line this out using pvc to a holding tank that wil have filter media in it. At the bottom of the holdong tank, I'll have a pump to run the water back to the stock tank. You could even put an in-line valave in the pvc to help control the rate of flow. My water is a bit over 3' and she has an 8 gal. rubbermaid container that she loves to get in. She also loves to do other things in it as well . So, I know that changing the water is a pain, but a small price to pay to own such a great monitor. You may want to incorporate this idea into the cage you plan to build. As of now I change mine no less than every 3 days. This may be wrong or right, but it works for me and my monitor seems a happy.