Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm posting this in here because I need help ASAP.

Okay I hadn't posted earlier for a fear of being flamed, considering that quite a few of you don't like me because of my views on venomoids, and the fact that I am currently housing another sick snake.

Okay here is the deal. I bought a Green Tree Python hatchling from Underground reptiles on December 17, 2003, the snake arrived at my house on December 19,2003. The snake appeared healthy, and accepted water as soon as it was shown the water source. I let the snake be for a few days in its new enclosure (a 10 gallon tank) with a 1/2 inch PVC pipe jungle gym, a 100 watt heat bulb at one side, and tree bark as a substrate.

I messed up in the snakes care, and I take full responsibility...but with that being said, I would like to try and save this snake.

I offered the snake a frozen/thawed pink on 12/21 and the snake accepted it to my suprise. The snake was observed in a normal tree python pose on the jungle gym throughout the week.

I again offered the snake a frozen/thawed pink on 12/30, again the snake accepted it and was observed on the jungle gym.

Someone had told me that the Jungle Gym being 1/2" in diameter was too big for this GTP that is only about as fat as a pencil. So the next week I observed the snake hanging out on the rim of it's water dish, which is about the same thickness as the snake.

I again offered the snake a frozen/thawed pink on 1/6/04. The snake struck at the pink and missed, then the snake proceeded to come down off of its water dish to "persue" the pink. I again placed the pink in front of the snake and the snake struck at the pink and missed,(now here's the weird part) the snake then fell back into its water dish with its mouth open, and i think it took some water...I pulled the snake out of the dish as fast as i could, and the snake appeared to be fine. The next week the snake was observed only on the floor of the enclousure, he never went up into his gym..in fact he stayed on the floor with his head buried in the substrate for a few days...I notcied that the snake was turning darker and figured he was going into a shed cycle, and since I've never had a GTP before, I let him be...After a few days, i picked him up and noticed that he had broke the skin off of the front of his nose and that he was indeed beginning to shed, i put him back in the enclosure and let him be.

Now here is where I messed up. Whilst tending to my other snake that has mouth/body rot, I let this snakes water dish dry out for a few days and I didn't mist the snake. The snake appeared "dried up" in his enclosure, the skin was very dry and so was his enclosure, and he was not moving around much. His movements were lathargic, like those of a snake coming out of brumation...
Once I realized what i had done, i immediately misted the snake down and pretty much soaked his entire enclosure, and let him be for a day. The next day he appeared a little bit better, but fearing dehydration i called up Underground reptiles. They told me that he wasn't dehydrated, he was just needing help shedding, they told me to put him in a delicup with a wet papertowel and leave him there overnight. I did so, this was maybe 4 or 5 days ago. I took him out of the cup at night and placed him in his enclosure, the appeared fine. He was once again hanging out on the jungly gym and basking in his light.

Late Last night I observed him on the floor of his enclosure again, appearing "dried up" so i again proceeded to mist the snake. Today when i woke up, he was still on the floor of the tank, but as i checked him periodically throughout the day, and misted him, he was moving around.

Then just now when i looked in the cage, he again appeared "dried up" and was laying on his side. His pupils were also very large and his eyes appeared almost totally black(I assume this is because he hasn't shed his eye caps yet?)

So now here i am at 12AM with a very sick snake and not knowing what to do, i put him back in the deli cup with the wet paper towel and he has started moving around slightly, but not much?

What is wrong with this snake, dehydration? I'm out of options and i lost the number of a guy i met online who's friend was a herp vet...i don't know what to do? the snake doesn't appear amaciated so i dont think its starving, should i offer it food anyways? is there anything i can do?

Please help me..
Thanks for your time,
Ralph
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0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Baby Aru Green Tree Python
2.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.4 Hatchling Bearded Dragons
1.1 Honduran Milksnake
1.0 Florida Brooksi Kingsnake
1.0 Blood Red Cornsnake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.0 Bull Mastiff

What's the humidity in the tank? Did it ever shed its skin? I think at this point you really need a vet... dehydration sounds pretty likely to me, which would be compounded if its skin never came off.
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

The humidity in the tank is not very high, but it is currently being housed in a deli cup with warm wet-paper toweling substrate, i would say the humidity is at least 90% in there.

The snake never shed its skin, I've been misting the snake everyday the past couple of days and have soaked him twice...I really don't know what else to do, I will try and find a local vet in my aread tomorrow and bring him in...

I was just in the reptile chat room and someone told me it is liekly that the snake has worms? That in fact the GTP's from underground are farmed, and that they don't do very well...

Any help is greatly apprecaited.
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0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Baby Aru Green Tree Python
2.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.4 Hatchling Bearded Dragons
1.1 Honduran Milksnake
1.0 Florida Brooksi Kingsnake
1.0 Blood Red Cornsnake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.0 Bull Mastiff

It might have worms... but I don't think that's the main problem. I think the vet will just have to sort this out... Make sure it has high humidity from now on though, dry air will mess up a rainforest snake like that.
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

You say he did break the skin on his nose and DID begin a shed? Then what you need to do is to soak the snake in (SHALLOW-so the water does not cover his back and head) warm (room temp) water for a few minutes. Do not leave it alone so you can be sure the head stays above water. This will soften the Skin so that it can shed. Then manually remove the skin. This is a condition that used to be known as being "skin bound". It is usually the result of being dehydrated. The snake can die of suffication, being unable to "breathe" thru it's skin.

Seeing the vet is a good idea even after doing this.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Thank you for the help Frank,

Unfortunately the snake passed away today. My first instinct when I saw the snake in that condition was to soak him. I did so for a few minutes and then I began to manually remove the skin from his nose (This was on about 1/19). Then I called Underground and they said NOT to manually remove the skin from his body as the GTP have very sensitive skin. So I soaked him in a deli cup with a moist paper towel, the water was very shallow and he was unable to "drown" himself. I wanted to help him out of the skin, but Underground advised me to do the opposite, so I just let him be. If I weould have seen this coming, or known that he could die from being skin bound, I would have made a better attempt at manually removing the skin, unfortunately that did not happen.

Thanks again,
Ralph

Another reason I did not try and manually remove the skin is because one of my hondurans is a problem shedder, and usually will stay with "broken" skin for a few days, before I attempt to soak her, and help the skin off. I actually just finished soaking her about a half an hour ago, and all the skin was removed. We're having a REALLY cold winter here in NY and it is also affecting my JCP, I have to soak him in a few minutes, he still has about a 4 inch long patch of skin on his neck, and the last 3 inches of his tail is also covered.

Thanks again for trying to help.
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0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Baby Aru Green Tree Python
2.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.4 Hatchling Bearded Dragons
1.1 Honduran Milksnake
1.0 Florida Brooksi Kingsnake
1.0 Blood Red Cornsnake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.0 Bull Mastiff

Sorry to hear that. I don't understand why Underground would tell you that. I know those guys well. Snakes from moist enviroments are especially prone to shed problems and dehydration. They seem amphibian like in that their skin requires that extra wetness to be healthy. Even the quality of the water they are exposed to matters.

I had a similar experience with a Emerald Tree Boa (which is about as similar as you get). Had to shed it manualy a couple of times but it grew up to be a very healthy (and handleable snake). The trick like I said is to let the skin get saturated and soft. Then there is no danger of tearing. Good luck with your next one.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."