Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I am new to this forum and have no experience with bloods. I have had boas, corns, kings, pines etc so I have snake keeping exp.
I came across a baby Borneo Short Tail today in a petshop that I would trust a little more than Petsmart. It was about 8-10" long and as thick as a heavy-duty hotdog and seemed alert and robust with good muscle tone with no obvious infections or defects. The retail price was $120.
He sat in my hand without any fuss or signs of aggression or defensiveness. The manager said it came in as a trade-in and guesstimated the age as approx 6 months, he did not know if privately CB or farm raised (at least he didn't say they come from mexico)and of course he said they feed it every week and it has never turned down a meal.
I was pretty much in awe of him/her. Must be a Borneo thing as I had the same thing happen years ago with one a guy was trying to sell as he was getting rid of his whole cooection but I had a house full of corns and pines at the time.
As I know nothing about bloods other than rumor and tall tales (I've heard some say thiey are slow, heavy lap snakes you can sit and watch tv with and others that they are fire breathing, face grabbing monsters)
I have some questions for those of you than keep them.

1. What are the differences between the different ssp such as the red bloods and Borneo STs in regards to size, husbandry and especially temperment (I like the idea of the lap snake thing).
2. Any differences in husbandry than with any other similar sized boid, I know they need an area of higher humidity and bowl to soak in and multiple tight hidespots.
3. Anything else I should know about but don't have the knowledge to know what to ask.
4. Anything in particular to look for in selecting a blood?
5. What is a reasonable price?

Thanks for any info you can give me.

>1. What are the differences between the different ssp such as >the red bloods and Borneo STs in regards to size, husbandry >and especially temperment (I like the idea of the lap snake >
>thing).

Borneos are a little smaller, Sumatrans ("true" blood pythons) are a little bigger, but all fall between an average of 5 - 7 ft at full growth. Obviously females are on the larger end of the spectrum and males the smaller. All three, the temprament depends on the snake. My borneo is 3 ft long and is a perfect angel, but i've been around yellows, blacks, and reds that were absolutely awful when they were 10 inches long. It all depends on the snake, and that's my experience. Other people will tell you differently.

>2. Any differences in husbandry than with any other similar >sized boid, I know they need an area of higher humidity and >bowl to soak in and multiple tight hidespots.

they like smaller caging. The best place to put them is in a rubbermaid sweater box with holes drilled into it. Mine is in a 55, but thats because i happened to have an extra cage at the time i got her as a gift and i wasnt about to rush out and buy a new cage when i had a perfectly serviceable one in the closet.

>3. Anything else I should know about but don't have the >knowledge to know what to ask.

I would ask to be present when the snake eats. in a petstore situation you cant always be, but i would, if youre really interested, ask to see it eat. at the petstore where i work, if people ask and the snakes havent just been fed, we will accomidate them, or have them come by on sunday night when they feed.

>4. Anything in particular to look for in selecting a blood?

It should be fat, no raised scales, no mucus around mouth or nose, not blowing bubbles, both eyecaps intact, breathing normally (bloods usually puff up and hiss when being handled, so if it does, thats fine, if not thats alright too, it just depends on the snake). Also look closely for ectoparasites, cuz mites are icky.

>5. What is a reasonable price?

Around here hatchlings go anywhere from $80 to $200 depending on type and color. Mine was for sale for $80 as a yearling and she's an absolutely BEAUTIFUL Borneo. (i'm predjudiced though) And she was below average in price because i was good friends with the guy who was selling her, and he ended up just giving her to me because he knew how badly i wanted her. At my shop, babies retail for $99.99 for Sumatrans.

Hope that helps a bit!
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Jamie A. Stine and the Gang: Hank, Lancelot, Guenevere, Jethro, and Gracie

Save a life, adopt a retired racer!

>>1. What are the differences between the different ssp such as the red bloods and Borneo STs in regards to size, husbandry and especially temperment (I like the idea of the lap snake thing).

Python brongersmai (Red blood python)- the largest of the short tailed pythons, the record is aound 10 feet, females average 5 to 7, males are smaller. these are rumored to be the most aggressive of the short tailed pythons...i have a red blood (sumatran) and shes a doll, hisses, but shes never even struck at people. the common name of redblood kinda gets confusing when you figure out that brongersmai has several different color phases, yellow, red, orange, brown, not to mention mutations!

Python breitensteini - i spelled that wrong im sure lol (Borneo short tailed python) smaller than reds, females average 4 to 6 feet, males smaller. supposedly a bit more calm than reds, but like i said, my reds a kitten.

Python curtus - (sumatran short tail) aka the black blood, alot of confusion with this one and reds as reds are found both in sumatra and malaysia. theyre mostly seperated from each other by a mountain range, but hybrid sumatran short tail x red bloods have been found in the wild. this is the black short tail, the smallest, females tend to average 3 to 5 feet or so, also said to be the most docile.

2. Any differences in husbandry than with any other similar sized boid, I know they need an area of higher humidity and bowl to soak in and multiple tight hidespots.

i keep all boids in a similar way...relatively dry cages with a moss filled hide. this way they can be extremely humid and then a bit dryer. i tend to keep my humidity at 50 - 60% general, with full cage sprays 2 to 4 times weekly. all of my snakes are kept on newspaper, its the best substrate for almost all snakes. temps are the average 78 cool end 85 warm end with a warmer basking spot. i also keep all of my snakes in rubbermaids, great for small to some pretty decent sized snakes. they hold heat and humidity very well.

3. Anything else I should know about but don't have the knowledge to know what to ask.

bloods are pretty straight forward in their care. but, they have some offensive behavoir that youll need to get used to, they hiss when you pick em up, they can just sit for days. they can also strike amazingly fast for such a thick animal. they can also get scale dimpling...this usually comes from excessive humidity, much less often from too little humidity. too much humidity can also cause uri issues.

4. Anything in particular to look for in selecting a blood?

look at the parents if possible. since bloods and short tails go thru a decent ontogentic color change the parents will be helpful in getting a BASIC idea...you wont know for sure till it happens, but seeing the parents is helpful. also make sure its a solid feeder, i was lucky, i got mine before she took her very first meal and had the chance to give her her very first. 18 months later, shes 40 inches long, she was 9 inches when i got her. never misses a rat, and still sits in my lap for hours if i want her to, but i dont handle my snakes much, better for them.

5. What is a reasonable price?

what are you willing to pay for one of these beautiful animals? price in reptiles is subjective...it changes all the time, far from constant, keep in mind tho, alot of times you get what you pay for, but there are thos $50 animals that mature into show stopping collection highlights.

happy herpin
J

You really can't go wrong with a sweet blood. Borneos are fantastic, though I do not have one myself (yet). I keep reds and a black at the moment... but they are all pretty much the same. A plastic tub , tupperware, sweaterbox (whatever) is the best way to keep a blood due to the fact the humidity is easy to maintain. Bloods (prefer?) stuff like cypress mulch, because they really like to burrow. But I keep going back to newspaper.
Higher humidity needed when babies... 60-75%... 50-60% when older.
A nice big water tub, a hide with moss, and a regular hide are essential for these animals. Moving slowly around them seems to suit their nature better than a hyper person as they are mellow. But they seem to mellow out more with age. The babies certainly have more movement than the adults. The adults are all about lazing around and doing absolutelty nothing!
As far as price??? $120 is decent. Midrange. If you like the snake, and think you can HONESTLY take care of it when it gets bigger... this thing will be eating jumbo rats...then you will love this animal to death and it will be worth the money.
True the babies like a smaller box to live in... but the adults seem to like some breathing space. Expect to buy your animal a few different sized boxes in his lifetime. Being they range from $2-$20 I am sure this will be no problem for you.
Let us know what happens.
In my opinion, and I am biased, bloods are the best boids you can have. Way better than ball pythons and much sweeter then retics. And they don't grow too rediculously large, or stay too small. Perfect

Amy, I am looking into BPs as well and since you stated bloods are better than BPs I wondered if you could elaborate on that a bit. My rationale for BPs is that it is a smaller, slower boid that rarely bites and I have a 17 month old that loves to touch my current snake ( a Cal king that chomps me almost every time I hold it) on the tale while I hold it and say, "sssssss sssssss." No matter what I get, I obviously won't let her hold it herself for many years but it's more a question of protective Mamma Bear letting anything nasty into the house. I do have a source of CB BPS that I trust and their hatchlings will be available in about a month.
I am rambling, getting back to my question, what do you like about bloods more than BPs (keeping in mind I have not kept either, my personal favorites are columbian BCIs but no more big snakes). I can tell from your previous posts that you are a true blood fan so here is your chance to share your thoughts and even brag a little.
I am all ears to whatever you have to say. Thank you

As far as attitude and tameness, you honestly can't beat a ball python (except maybe a children's python). And ball pyhons are not as mellow as some say they are. They are extremely handleable, but in my experience they are always trying to get away! Ball pythons are notorious for stoppping eating. Starving themselves, anorexia, whatever.Ever since my male reached 3 years old, he'd stop eating for months and months on end. In fact, he only ate for 3 months out of the year. Every year he does this. There is nothing wrong with the animal and he has been to the vet several times. I read males stop eating in the winter months because all they want to do is breed.
Then again, this is merely my experience. To me, they're great snakes, beautiful and very sweet, but they are a pain int he a^^!
Bloods.... well, well... my favorite subject. Why am I such a fan? Never had a blood bite, never even attempt to. There are so many different varities. I mean you have the incredible reds that grow monstrous and have yellows to brick reds in their color. Not to mention, I have 2 and both are sweet as can be. Very docile and handleable. The big one is so mellow, you can literally sit her on the couch and leave her there for hours as she soaks it all in without moving a muscle. They are more or less comatose when they get bigger.
The Borneo... said to be even more docile then the reds. I can't help you much here I have never had one. But I will tell you that they don't get a whole heck of a lot bigger then the balls do, lengthwise anyways. They do get fat and extremely heavy though. I read somewhere and adult (red) blood can weigh 75 lbs... and with a few feet shorter I say a Borneo at full weight could be 40-50 easy. Borneos are so diverse in their coloring adn patterns too. I have seen some incredible specimens in all 3 species, but there is something about the "marble blood" that makes my jaw drop. They are a mutation (or somehting) of the Borneo. They are incredible. As are the Sarawaks. There is nothing in my eyes more beautiful in the reptile world.
Then you have the slightly smaller Sumatrans, or black, or curtus... whatever, they are awesome too. As far as bloods go, besides the Sarawaks and the Marbles, these are my favorite. They are downright sweet and sassy! Not as lazy as their larger counterparts, but still act as if they have had a valume. Their colors are getting more diverse. I am partial to the kinds with different head colors. Mine has an orange head, almost a pastel color. There is a girl here on the forum who has a yellow head one. Incredible looking animal.
Aside from the looks of the animals, they are very sweet and eat like they will never eat again. My smaller red with snatch a rat from my hands quicker than anything... but has never attempted to bite me. My big red takes her own sweet time. Never has struck at a dead rat. She just opens up her big mouth and works it in. They will eat frsh killed and frozen.
The one and only negative I can think of with these animals is they don;t poop enough and you may have to bathe them regularly. As far as kids? Well. My (now 10) daughter handles mine and I have had many other kids around. You have to make sure though that the kids move SLOW! These snakes can get freaked kinda easy. They are by no means "jumpy" but they are a little defensive... probably a little more so than the ball.

I hope I have helped to answer some of your question. Remember these are simply one persons' experiences.

Thanks for all the info, I have a lot to consider now, don't quite know what I am going to do. I have it narrowed down to Ball or Borneo or Brazillion rainbow boa, it's going to be tough.

Since everyone has answered your questions I thought you might want to see some pics of one. This one is a little over a year old, female and about 3 feet long. She feeds great and is very tame. Go to the link to see the pics, they are on the second page too.
click here

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My pic gallery

I was hoping I would hear bad comments and people would talk me out of it. No such luck obviously and the pictures make me want to go back and start haggleing over price. Thank you.