Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering if anyone here has worked with the speckeled locale of the Sulawesi salvators. They are very nice looking but wanted to do some research on them before I took the plunge. John A was kind enough to provide me with some info on them. I know that the largest specimen he knows of in captivity was only a skinny 6 feet. The ones being sold are babies they look fat and healthy. I guess what I want to know is if they et as big as the mainland salvators or if they are on the smaller side like Cummingi. Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated I really want to get one, but if they get to the full potential mainland can get then I wont be able to. I already have my Spare room with gouldii complex monitors and I would have to do some rearranging if the potential is that great.

thanks

hey,
that speckled i mentioned was not skinny 6 foot, but it wasnt a bulky individual... probably healthier that way. not too many are around, so no one really can be sure how big they can be. some cumingis are 6 feet so thats not a great example. they look sulawesan in origin but there are speckled varieties from many localities (ex.- east java, malaysia). im sure they are no different than keeping other salvators, so expect a large animal in time. just 2 more cents-john

John hey there in the email you wrote me you did mention that it was skinny but I think you were stating it as a comparison to regular salvators. 6 feet is smaller than most salvators so i think it is safe to say that they are a smaller member of this group, but of course there are 6 foot salvators, but hey whatever is clever thanks for the pic thats a real nice speckeled is this the one you were telling me about, ouch nice nose rub he had , nontheless very nice animal. Any ideas why they have such a speckeled skin in comparison to the other slavators? And maybe why the sulfurs are so yellow as well as the cumingi? I just got introduced to the salvators but i think they are striking to look at maybe we can chat about it some more.

alex

hi alex,
the speckles i can only "speculate" as to why they are this way. could be all kinds of reasons. in 1994, a few salvators were imported as speckled waters. many who i contacted said this kind will turn all black with age; this was not the case. it remained peppered with little whitish specks. pattern might reflect its habitat, or diet, or soil type, or foliage.
sulfurs and cumingis look similar but in person the yellow is not same. sulfurs have a neon green tinge to them, and cumingis are yolk yellow, but cb cumingis are not yolk yellow. confused? me too. the photo is the 6 foot speckled before he died (cancer from what i remember). that animal lived 6 years. contact me anytime for a chat either here or cybersalvator. regards, -john

My female is real yellow as you mentioned wild caughts to be, but the male is real dark burnt yellow looking like orange in color. He is also wild caught but the difference is easily seen between the two. He also has a different pattern with more of a solid black back, where as her pattern is all broken up.

So not sure if I would contribute the colors to being wild caught or captive born. I would say more along the lines of the parents and what gets passed down.

What do you think?

Jody the pic did not show up?

alex

n/p

sh$% sorry i thought u did ........finals got me all jacked up man school sucks !!!! I really thought u had ha ha ha ha lol !!

forget what i posted

alex

hi jody,
yeah my pair of cumingis are the intense yellow type. im sure theres alot of variance in colors, either related to genetics or age, or something else. but the cbb cumingis are truly amazing, they do not look like the parents! they explode with color, colors not seen in the wild caughts. i had nice photos of a dozen wild caught cumingis in a warehouse, but i lend them to eric pesce and havent gotten them back. the animals pictured are really mixed, some with all black heads and yellow banded bodies, others look like typical cumingis. some had scars where the noose tightened on their legs and feet. -ja

Yeah from what I have seen the c.b.b. cumingi's do differ from wild caughts. I just wasn't sure if you attributed that into being captive or what.

Like do you think it is caused by incubation, temps, diet??

Or is it merely the very few c.b.b come from one place. Then the bloodline is so narrowed down that they come out with this trait and color instead of being disperesed into making the more variants of the wild types??

lol holy crap i forgot i saved them! ill get those pics up sometime today. my opinion is the cb cumingi color thing is due to being captive raised, in artificial indoor environment, and diet. maybe genetics too, but as no one else is really producing them, we dont know much more. theres keepers all over europe who are raising them in different conditions, and getting similar color effect, and larger size.-john.

jody, be sure to comment on these. -john

cybersalvator.com

another

1 more

took this dec 2002

check the differences!

this is sean's.

Wow first of all......you can see the differences between the wild caughts and the cbs not taking anything away from Jody's cummingis that are gorgeous but the orange tints on the cb ones are breathtaking....awesome animals

oh totally. in person, even wc cumingis light up a room. i love the crisp contrast. also, according to german herpetologist m. gaulke, cumingi is an ancient ancestor to salvator, not exactly related to indonesian salvator. she based this on a theory of how salvator arrived in philippines. in another study, some woman in philippines completed a blood study of marmoratus, nuchalis and cumingi and found they are very similar. pic is cumingis at basel zoo, switzerland. i took this from eric pesce sorry bro. -john

cybersalvator

Wow that is another amazing picture.....I did not know that the blood work was similar between the philipino salvators. How is this related to the mainland indo salvators? Are the blood types different or the same there ? How about in comparison to the philipino salvators?

the blood is probably the same, but no one did any indo bloodwork. i bet its all the same animal, sulfurs included. -john

Those pictures are all of the female, she has grown since then I'll have to get a measurement and wieght on her later.

The male has more black on him and his head has a burnt orange color mixed with the yellow, unlike that female which is just highlighter yellow throughout.

John about the europe cumingi's do they all come from the same bloodline? Is it one zoo producing them and thats why those c.b.b you showed appear similar to the Frankfurt zoo??

If they are all related then that would be why that color is coming out. If you keep breeding the same ones back you bring out that gene to the forefront hence them all having more orange.

In the wild they would disperse the genes and some might not pass on keeping it however mohter nature wanted it. In captivity we can manipulate the colors patterns etc. very easily when breeding our animals.

That is how I believe the europe bloodline got so much orange. but I guess I will find out soon as my female produces something other then eggs for me LOL

Both of my cumingi's are 4 foot and still growing. I have only had mine for a little over a year now.

AS far as i know, its all franfurt zoo surplus. the parents- which look like our wild caughts, are pictured in mertensiella 2, and their breeding efforts documented there. we wont know more, unless we hatch our eggs, as of now, its a mystery to me. -john
PS, ill get more of your pics in my gallery tomorrow, now i must get home and shovel a foot of snow we got last nite. sheesh.
cybersalvator.com

Haha Oh manglad I am here in FL. now and not stil in IL. i dont miss those days of shoveling.

Well guess we both better get cracking with these egg's LOL if only I could force them to do something.

I'll try and get you updated pictures of my salvators too.

Don't freeze my friend

Jody

hahhahaa - my females lookin swell, so maybe im onto something. lookin forward to new pics. -john