Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Found on North shore of Lake Ontario.
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"Way to breath! No breath"
-- Jimbo Jones

What kind?
Thank You
Cam Hanna

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"Way to breath! No breath"
-- Jimbo Jones

Looks like a Jefferson Salamander (Ambystoma jeffersonianum).np

That's definitely not a jefferson's salamander. It's a Plethodontid. No way to know which species for sure without you telling us where it was found and approximately how big it is. My first guess would be the Cheat Mountain sal, P. nettingi...followed by P. richmondi, or P. wehrlei.

It was found in Southern Ontario, Canada. Our only native plethodon type salamanders are Redback, four-toed, slimey (rare, not known in are) and two-lined.

I think it is likey a morph of the redback, like leadback with more blue spots(it really was that spotted, not a camera trick) and less lead.

What do think?

Cam Hanna
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"Way to breath! No breath"
-- Jimbo Jones

It looks like a "Lead-backed" salamander to me!

Christie
Park Street Pets

I believe it is an ambystomid (hybrid) and not one of the plethodontid salamanders. To rule out it being a plethodontid get a magnifying glass and check for the presence of nasolabial grooves. These small grooves run from the nasal opening to the upper lip and are a good way to distinguish between these two groups of salamanders. Plethodontids have them while ambystomids do not. It is very possible it is a hybrid of the Ambystoma jeffersonianum complex. These are hybrids of different ambystomid species and are supposedly common throughout the Great Lakes region. Their identity can be confusing as they have various mixes of traits from each species. I believe they are also all female. I purchased 4 lungless salamanders from an exotic pet shop and when I got them home I checked for the nasolabial groove (I did not have my glasses with me at the shop.) Well after ruling out that they were not lungless salamanders I began to search the field guides and also to key them out. They came back with traits of a couple different species including the Jeffersonian. They could not be keyed out definitively to any one species. I was eventually able to conclude that they were hybrids. Mine look similar to yours. Anyway, check for the nasolabial groove and let us know what you find. This will definitively tell you to which of the two families your salamander belongs.

Randy

Firehouse Herps

I admit I'm not entirly familier with salamanders or genetics but I don't believe a hybrid could exist between Ambystoma and Plethodon. Would it have lungs like ambystoma or not? I think that mole salamanders and lungless salamander are too fundementally disimiler to produce viable offspring. Could you make babies with a lemur??

Cam Hanna
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"I'm tired of being a wannabe bowler! I wanna be a bowler!!"
-- Homer Simpson

You are correct. I could have been more specific. The hybrids are between two different ambystomids. They are supposedly quite common and they are well documented by the scientific community. I first encountered their mention in Conant's Field Guide to Eastern Reptiles and Amphibians. Subsequent research dug up even more literature on them. I have also seen them for sale in the classified forum as Jeffersonian hybrids. There was a great web site about them but I do not have the url.

Thanks,
Randy

I regularly find Jeff/Blue-spot hybrids & that sal is certainly not one of them. I say Slimy

That's is deffinitely one of the Plethodontids (family of Plethodontidae) I'm not familiar with the salamanders inyour area and many of the Plethodontids can look very similiar. My gues would be the Slimy Salamander, Plethodon glutinosus.

Post a picture.np

It is not an ambystomid. Looks like it could be a read back, just trhe lead back version (Plethodon cinerus). Could also be one of the other members of the cinerus group,listed below. Where was it captured?

P. hoffmani
P. richmondi
P. virginia
P. dorsalis
P. veratus

Zac

This website has another picture and better description.
Living Underworld

...because cameras and lighting/flash often make whitish or greyish spots appear blue.

The main reason you can safely eliminate an Ambystoma is the length of the toes. In the photo link of A. jeffersonianum you provide, notice how long the toes are! The animal in the photo has the short toes of a Plethodon.

Leadback's what I thought too. It was found in S. Ontario so that's really the best pick. Jeffersons have long toes, long snout and a laterally compressed tail. I just thought I'd double check with everyone because it's so not leady, colouration does suggest jeffersons though.
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"Way to breath! No breath"
-- Jimbo Jones