Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have experience with a number of Elapids, Cobras and Death Adders anyway. Are Greens easy care wise? Are there any "caresheets" online? I have been to "John Mast... Elapid Pages" Great site. Any other suggetions would be appriciated.
Wingert

Hello Wingert. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of resources online for the care of highly dangerous elapids. Maybe that should be fortunately though... Just about all the online sources you can find about mambas deal solely with their habits and natural history. Almost no keeping books will give advice for venomous keepers, much less for those wishing to keep Dendroaspis. I've kept a number of various elapid species, mostly Naja, but have also kept three of the Dendro species as well (for a short time anyway). D. viridis, angusticeps, and one polylepis have all found their way to my place at some point or another (though admittedly, the polylepis was HIGHLY temporary, just keeping it for a friend for a very short time). As weird as it may seem though, the polylepis was the calmest and easiest handled of all the Dendros I've messed with. They are more terrestrial than the other mambas, and therefore aren't quite as inclined to simply fly straight up the hook and into your face. Greens, on the other hand, can and will easily do this. Though there is a wide variety of toxicity found between the greens (i.e. relatively low toxicity of angusticeps, and very high toxicity of viridis), they are all completely capable of killing an adult male human within a short amount of time. Mambas have the more forward placed fangs of any elapid, so they basically only need to bump you a bit to get a good envenomation in. For all the reasons, and for simple logic and common sense, extreme caution must be used when dealing with them. I've yet to handle any snake that compared to a mamba, and that's out of the following sample of what I've handled: Oxyuranus s. canni (7' adult and babies), N. melanoleuca, N. sumatrana, N. siamensis, N. nigricollis, N. mozambica, O. hannah, H. haemachatus, N. kaouthia, N. pallida, N. haje and annulifera, and D. typus (boomslangs). In fact, there have been only a very small number of snakes that I have resulted to using tongs on (Widwest Gentle Giants), and those were the melanoleuca, because otherwise it was biting everything in site, including itself, and all the mambas. I believe that with mambas, complete control must be used. I once handled a 6.5' D. viridis with the simple hook and tail method, and found my heart beat to be slightly elevated afterward (note the sarchasm in the word "slightly". They are, simply put, awe inspiring. Speaking of that viridis, his speed was phenomenal. He could move from one side of a 4' long enclosure to the complete opposite, and all I ever saw was a green blur. His head would go from point A to point B in less than one second. I'm afraid to say that that kind of speed is quite possibly more than any normal human can react to in time. Therefore, I will always have a good set of tongs around when dealing with Dendros.

Now that my warnings are out of the way, lol, I'll actually try to answer your question. Their care is basically simple. No complicated cage design, unless you are hoping to breed them, but I won't get into that here. In fact, the more simple the cage is, the better. I always kept my mambas in top-opening enclosures, because I personally don't like dealing with lightening fast deadly snakes that can shoot out the front and kiss me on the lips. However, that's just a personal preference. Many keepers maintain Dendros in Neodeshas and Visions in with no problems, I'm not one of them however. A large water bowl is always provided, as they have a fast metabolism and will drink often if given the chance. Newspaper is a preferable substrate. None of the mambas need super high humidity, so that can be taken care of with the large water bowl. However, they all defacate very often, so you want a substrate that is easy to clean. Trapboxes are by far the best way to go. However, there can be problems with that. Many mambas will spend all their time during the day out cruising around the cage. Some keepers succeed in "herding" their mambas into the trapboxes whenever necessary. Others, like myself, just wait until evening or night when the snakes are more likely to naturally retreat into their boxes, because they are largely diurnal. If you must handle the snake for cleaning, always have a partner around, and have a large trashcan with a secure lid in very close proximity to drop the animal into for the cleaning. Feeding most mambas is incredibly simple. If the snake will take f/t, and almost all, even fresh w.c., will, just drop in the rodent and walk away. If they only want live, drop in the rodent and walk away. The reason I stress to walk away is because mambas tend to be very high strung and generally are jumpy when trying to eat with a person watching. I can't blame them much on that one. The viridis I had initially just wanted life prey, but I would never have to worry when feeding him. I did watch him a few times, and every time he never failed to grab the mouse behind the neck and would hold it in the air helpless until the venom subdued it (which was around 30 seconds or so). I even took a really good video of this once, but it's far too large to try to send. He was the only mamba I've personally ever seen that would hold onto its prey. They usually utilized a bite and release method, so they generally erred on the side of caution. Keep them in roomy enclosures, as they will often use every bit of the space you give them. The climbers will enjoy branches, but keep them simple. The more clutter in the cage, the more the snake has to hold onto when you try to remove it. Like I said earlier, I won't get into the breeding aspect of Dendros because A. I've never done it, and B. only two or three clutches of polylepis have been produced in the US and none of the greens. I hope this was somewhat helpful, and not too terribly long.
River Valley Snakes

..only two or three clutches of polylepis have been produced in the US and none of the greens.

Just as a quick sidenote - Dendroaspis angusticeps have been produced in the US, and captive-hatched specimens of all Dendroaspis species are available at irregular intervals.

~TE

>>Just as a quick sidenote - Dendroaspis angusticeps have been produced in the US, and captive-hatched specimens of all Dendroaspis species are available at irregular intervals.

Ah, I wasn't aware anyone had accomplished it yet. I've spoken to a few people, and none of them knew about it, but all seemed to agree that it most likely had something to do with the setup. I would wager than breeding mambas would take a gigantic cage, and probably have multiple males to fight it out would help as well. If I were to ever attempt it, I'd try to build a cage around 7' tall, maybe even 8', around 4' in depth, and 6 or 7' in length. I'd try to have some real trees in there, as well as probably some fake or nonliving branches. Put in two males and one female. The combat shouldn't be too terribly dangerous for either male, as I've heard they almost never actually inflict any damage. But this might be necessary to make the victor want to breed badly enough. I'm assuming you know of and/or have spoken with whomever bred angusticeps, what sort of set up did he/she use? And yeah, CH greens pop up seemingly often, and are really not a bad way to go. I acquired a ch angusticeps would was completely perfect and never had any real problems with her. I may keep my eyes open for whenever some ch jamesoni pop back up.
-Chance

D.agusticeps,D.viridis,D.polylepis, have been produced in the US, and probably D.jamesoni also.

My D.polylepis have bred in a standard 3' Neodesha (infertile eggs were produced that time, but they did breed).

I also find all 4 species of Dendroaspis to be less active than any of my 40 naja species, and less messy too.

Just my expierience,
CB

Thanks for the enlightenment on the greens. Up to now, everyone I have ever spoken with were sure that no greens had been successfully bred and hatched in captivity, in the US. However, you are the god of elapid breeding, so I'll trust your words Speaking of, and I hope you come back to this thread, I've heard you are trying to produce some of the PNG species. What all are you trying? I believe I remember you advertising some baby common browns last year or the year before. Also, I know Randy Ciuros pretty well, and he too has produced baby textilis but none of them survived; and I believe he said that you didn't have much luck with yours either. I'm just wanting to speak with other people that are breeding and/or keeping PNG elapids, as I'm hoping to, within the next 3 to 4 years, breed my young canni. Anyway, thanks a ton for replying, I hope to be able to converse with you more.
-Chance Duncan
River Valley Snakes

c.b. d. polylepis show up on the classifieds and various vendor sites from time to time. I think glades herp has 0.4 polylepis neo's right now...

>>c.b. d. polylepis show up on the classifieds and various vendor sites from time to time. I think glades herp has 0.4 polylepis neo's right now...

I've seen the numerous ch polys in the classifieds. Those come from w.c. females that laid eggs in captivity, probably in Africa, and the babies were imported. Again, this is not a bad way to go at all. The babies are generally very healthy and do very well in captivity. It's certainly a safer route to go than w.c.

Thank you for all the information you took the time to share. One more question. Do they seem content in captivity or are they always searching for an escape?

Well, I can't say I really know of any species of snake that is "content" in captivity. They will always look for a means of escape, and trust me, if they ever find it, out they will go! Mambas especially will always be searching their cage. This isn't necessarily them being unhappy and looking for a way to get away, but they are naturally a very active species and during the day are generally on the move. This, to me, makes for a very good display specimen. However, if you are asking if they will ever just stop moving around much and stay in one general area of the cage, the answer is now. Always keep an eye on the cage and make sure it is always completely secure, or you will end up with the extreme pleasure of having to find an escaped and probably irritated mamba in your snake room.
-Chance

From a pure husbandry perspective, Dendroaspis are very easy to care for. In fact, they are some of the hardiest snakes of all Elapids. However, it is obviously not their husbandry that makes working with them so challenging, but rather their incredible speed and their overall physical abilities.

It cannot be stressed enough that their speed is absolutely breathtaking and much faster than a person could possibly react. A scared or hungry Mamba can act like a live wire, zooming through even the largest enclosures like a high velocity bullet. If you talk to anyone who has worked with Mambas for some time, you are very likely to hear some rather hair-raising stories that illustrate their physical abilities quite well.

The key to keeping Mambas is in the setup. Trapboxes are functional, but aren't always used by the animals, especially with adults. Hatchlings and juvenile specimens are much more likely to retreat to their trapbox fairly often, whereas adult specimens may spend many days without ever using them. Divider setups work very well, and are certainly recommendable. Branches and other devices that facilitate climbing are necessary for all species, except D.polylepis, although the ladder will certainly use them if provided.

Regards,

~TE

Ok, they are fast. Understood. Do they run around at full speed with there mouth wide open trying to bite something like certain cobras or are they just in a hurry to get away for the most part?
Wingert