Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Since they both seem to hug a lot of branches, like to rest thier chins.
(you can't see it, but there is another branch tucked in to Zoe's belly roll)

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Kim

I know I told you to just keep giving him the Repta-Aid, but..... um, you might just want to, uh, maybe lower the dose a tad, I don't think we have to worry about calling Dr. Phil just yet.....

Hi: That is a BEAUTIFUL cham! May I ask, is he on the plumper side(don't mean any offense),I'm a newbie trying to get used to seeing what a healthy weighted cham should look like. Didn't quite know what the most diplomatic way of asking that should be Should my Panther cham have a nice belly like this? That is one of the most beautiful vields I've seen. He makes me wanna rub his tummy. Thanks-Maggie

heh...maybe he's having a sympathy pregnancy for Luna?

He's not really that fat. He's just relaxing his tummy muscles in that pic, plus he's leaning over toward the camera with his entire belly on that side of the stick. He was getting sleepy, and he's on his "I'm ready for bed" stick.
My daughter and I had a good laugh at him though, because the way he's leaning, you can't even see his back leg, let alone the stick.

When I get home, I'll post a pic of him without his "beer belly" hangin' out.

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Kim

See what I mean about him leaning over, and resting his belly on the stick. In this picture he is sound asleep. I just took it when I got home this morning. He's completely relaxed, so his belly is droopy.
Once he wakes up, I'll take another picture of him, and you can see what he looks like when he's holding his gut in.

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Kim

How much are you feeding him? For a chameleon that needs to be hand fed, he's not having any problems eating, you must be veryattentive to him.

When determining if a chameleon, or any lizard for that matter , is overweight, you don't go by their belly. Especially chameleons, their bodies change shape, so it's not really easy to tell.

the best general ways are their casque, and the base of the tail. The base of the tail should be smooth, but not round in cross section. The open sides of the casque should be SLIGHTLY bulging out in most species, but in veilds, it should be pretty flat. Another casque hint: look at it from the side. If you see meat/fat bulging out from behind the casque, past the occipital flaps, he's a little chubby.
My veild is still a bit overweight--it's NOT easy to get him skinny, he was REALLY fat for a while. I had been on a bit of a stint with waxworms, and I underestimated the ability of chameleons to convert calories to fat....

He had similar bulges on his casque to what zoe has.

Another way to tell: look at the wrinkles skin where the legs join the body. There should NOT be thick folds.

Zoe is probably better off if he lost some weight. Veilds are very good at dealing with famine and drought, in turn , they are very good at making the best out of what they DO get. In captivity, this is usually much better than what they'd get in the wild. Most veilds are going to be overweight, because we want to make sure they're healthy.

I think you would be surprised at hoiw little food is required for them to maintain weight. I feed my male 2-3 times a week, and no more than 3-4 bugs at a time. He is NOT losing weight. HE's getting a bit bigger as a matter of fact. My older veilds used to get insects once every 4-5 days on average, and vegetables, fruit and flowers a few times a week--especially nthe summer, when the flowers and hibiscus were in bloom.

My male stayed outside in the summer all the time. He had several hibiscus growing in there. I would feed him once a week. He thrived out there in 90degree plus weather, high humididty, and little food. HE would eat the occational small fly in his cage, but since he was screened in , he didn't get any big bugs. He ate hibiscus flowers every day.

Never ever ever got skinny.

It's pretty amazing, how resilient they are. From some papers I have read, it seems that fatty liver is a pretty big problem with lizards in general, veilds in particular, and is a major cause of death.

We want to keep them at least a LITTLE plump, of course, in case they get sick, we want them to have a store of fat. But i'm really trying to get my veild to slim down a bit, and he's not quite as plump as zoe. Funny thing about my veild...he always looks emaciated at first. The way his miscles in the base of his tail are, they look like tendons. When you get up close you see he's actually fat, but compared to the veilds I USED to breed, he looks very different. I SWORE he was skinny or had worms, for the first 6 months, but the little sucker just grew like crazy.

don';t think I'm trying to lecture you--I'm just on my morning caffiene kick, and I can't stop typing......

E

Zoe actually eats about 7-8 ml of repta-aide every couple days. That's how much I would estimate actually gets in to him...there is some waste at each feeding.

You really think he's chubby? I worry because when I look at the base of his tail, it seems like I can see the tendons.
I agree that when he's all hunkered down like that, that he seems pretty rolly polly, but when he's up and about, he seems to appear "long and lean".

I would imagine though, that the repta-aide is pretty high in calories, compared to an insect diet, especially since it is supposed to be an emergency meal.
He certainly isn't the most active chameleon, to burn off the extra calories.

When he was sick last winter/spring, the vet weighed him at that time, he weighed 214 grams. The vet said that he was "terribly underweight". I keep thinking about that, because he doesn't look much different size wise now, compared to then.

Of course, the only other chamleons I can compare him to, in real life, are the pet shop chameleons. They really aren't ideal specimens to be comparing Zoe to, as they are most often juveniles, and kept in poor conditions. I've never seen another full grown veiled in real life, to have a factual comparison.

As always, thanks for your help and ideas.
They are always appreciated.

Kim
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Kim

I was just teasing. I am so happy to see this boy in great shape! I followed his story and was rooting for him all the way!
If you are worried about things like liver damage then cut back to Repta-aid every other or every third day. The only thing with Repta-aid is I don't know if the calcium or vitamin content may be too high to give him daily for extended periods of time. The one I have that is on it long term I feed every other day one week and every third day the next week. His weight stays pretty constant (he is a panther so it may be different).
If you kill a cricket and put it in his mouth when he opens up what does he do. If he will chew and swallow it you may want to give him that at least once a week instead of Repta-Aid.
Being able to pack on the weight is at least a good sign (much better than waseting away)
Sonia

>>Since they both seem to hug a lot of branches, like to rest thier chins.
>>you can't see it, but there is another branch tucked in to Zoe's belly roll)
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>>Kim

Resting on branches like that is often a sign of MBD. Additionally, it looks like you need to put some thicker branches in the cage because none of those are wide enough for his feet. Too small branches can cause foot problems.
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
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Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

Hi Chris,

Zoe actually has an assortment of branches in his cage. He just prefers that dried out dead schefflera branch to sleep on.
The branch on the left side of the pic...the one hidden by his belly is considerably fatter..bigger in diameter than my thumb, and I have man thumbs.
He just seems to like that one skinny branch. I even tried putting in a new scheff...and he'd have no part of it. So, I just attached the other branch to the shrivelled up one.

I don't think Zoe has MBD, I think he's just lazy. The branch hugging would be the only symptoms of MBD that he has. He has veterinary care, and receives calcium through the repta aide. I have confirmed with two vets that I should not supplement him with additional calcium while he is living on repta-aide.

I appreciate your advice, and I hope that I don't sound as though I'm disregarding it.
Believe me, I know what you mean about the branches being thin...and I've tried to switch them, but then Zoe sulks, and gets all upset when I switch things around. He is very much a creature of habit.

Thanks,
Kim
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Kim

Kim, I find it so funny about that old scheff branch. I rememeber quite some time ago you posted a pic of it all droopy and said he wouldn't give it up! Liek his little security blanket

Funny about the skinny sleeping branches. Luna will bask on her nice fat "log" of driftwood or one the the bendi-vines but she sleeps on a kiwi branch that is only about 1/4" diameter! Weird. I wonder though if it is a feeling of security in that they can fit their whole foot around it and get a good grasp - just a thought!

Do other find these sleeping preferences with their chams??
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

3 of my chams seem to like the small fake vines to sleep on... my new baby is currently sleeping on the back side of a leaf, LOL you can only see his 2 huge eyes on both sides of the stem.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.1 Veileds
1.0 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther

I read that chams in the wild sleep out on the edge of branches where they are skinny b/c of predation issues. Not only is it harder for a predator to get out on the branch to eat them, but also they can feel the vibrations easier and will drop off the tree to the forest floor as a means of getting away if they feel threatened.

I had suspected this as a probable reason for this seemingly strange predisposition of preferrence of smaller branches. Just as they may prefer to be high, they may choose smaller branches for some illusion/instinct of saftey. Very interesting! Thanks for the info. Maggie

On her favourite branch with her chin resting on the very top. It looks really funny.
Her other two spots are on the side of the cage in she exact same spot and position, and once in a while hanging from the roof. I have never been able to figure that one out. She seems to rotate sleeping pos. between those three spots every few weeks. Maybe she's trying to be unpredictable... lol
I think Zoe looks great!! I know what you mean about his tummy bulging.. orion can look thin as a twig one minute, the next her belly is sagging over a branch and she looks gravid again.

that is such a funny picture how big is he now? wasn't it just about a year ago that you rescued him?
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Zoe is now a minimum of three years old.
It has been almost a year since I got him...and word at that time was he was 2 years old then.
So, it's hard to say for sure.
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Kim