Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know there is a lot of experience cleaning cages in here, anyone use either of these products? Do you like one or the other? If not, why not. Thanks

With all of the indigos in Vision cages I use only water to clean cages and glass. I clean all cages at least twice a week. Newspaper substrate.

I use Roccal-D for my day-to-day cleaning and for my periodic complete disinfecting I use a 20% Chlorine Bleach solution, followed by rinsing, then Roccal-D followed by another rinsing, then air-dry.

That way I figure I've pretty well covered the spectrum. There are some things the Chlorine won't kill but the Roccal will and some thing the Roccal won't kill but the Chlorine will.

it seems bleach won't kill is Crypo...

Ammonia kills Crypto.

I had a snake years ago I thought might have had Crypto (turns out it didn't) anyway...I cleared the cage with ammonia. (ammonia kills Crypto)

anyway...long long story short, don't clean with ammonia.
I had to evacuate the entire snake room while running in and out of the room to breathe.

It is a Quaternary Ammonia preparation and it does kill Cryptosporidium. It is also a deodorizer. There ares some viruses that Roccal isn't particularly effective against, but Chlorine bleach will kill them.

RCS can easily be killed by simply steam cleaning the enclosure and drying it under UV lighting.
There is absolutely no need to expose yourself, or your animals, to chlorine bleach or ammonia.
Not to mention, if you have a specimen which has been exposed to RCS (Reptile Cryptosporidiosis) and shpuld actually become symptomatic of the disease, the prognosis is quite grim, not to mention the rate of cross contamination of this pathogen to the rest of your collection, as it is highly contagious.

I understand. I know what Crypto is, and I know what the prognosis is for a symptomatic animal, and what the likelihood of transmission to other animals is. But, I don't steam-clean my enclosures, nor do I dry them with UV. I've never had an animal with Crypto (or any other disease) enter my collection because I quarantine everything and treat in quarantine. By the time they actually enter the collection, they are disease and parasite free. I've been using Roccal-D and Chlorine bleach solution successfully for over 20 years now, so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing because it works for me. I've never had any sort of ill effects to myself or my animals from exposure to either. As long as you adequately rinse and air dry after disinfecting, there is no danger.

To each their own. I was in no way criticizing your maintenance methods. I was however, addressing the individuals question, in regards to a method of cleaning, which would not require a thorough rinsing. I do not believe chlorine bleach or Roccal-D meet that criteria.
If you took offense to my suggestion, I apologize.
I simply follow protocol set by the university for which I am employed, both at work and within my personal collection, and I too have over 20 years experience, but that is not of issue, as there has been a great deal discovered, in regards to various chemicals and the potentially toxic effects such may have, since 20 years ago. Heck, back then, I used chlorine bleach and water too.
I no longer use chlorine bleach, due to the negative impact it can "potentially" have over the long run. Besides, steam cleaning is much more cost effective and environmentally friendlier in the long run. In my humble opinion!
As for quarantine, that should be common sense, yet the number of people I have spoken with, who have no quarantine protocol in place, astounds me. I was unaware of a treatment for RCS, but if you have treated a quarantined specimen successfully, I would certainly like to know what your treatment plan consisted of.
About the only decent thing about RCS, is that it is a potozoa and thus has a short incubation period lasting 3-7 days and a fecal examination will detect oocysts early on. I quarantine new specimens for a minimum of 90 days and run fecal examinations weekly during this period.
While I have never incurred RCS within my personal collection (knock on my head), I have received a variety of specimens for necropsy with such, mostly of South American and Micronesian origins, and to say the least, it scares the living daylight out of me.

Nah, I didn't take it as criticism, nor did I take offense to it. It's just that when I have something that works for me I stick to it..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I have not treated for Crypto in my collection or in my own quarantine. As I said, I have never had a specimen in my collection with Crypto. However, I did have one in quarantine with Crypto once. I euthanized the animal and destroyed the cage and all furnishings. I know of no proven effective treatment for Cryto at this point. I did try to treat a White-lipped Python that belonged to another person once. It came in from a wholesale dealer in pretty bad shape. Since it was not feeding at all, I had to use a stomach lavage, and cloacal lavage to try to get a diagnostic specimen. I found Cryptosporidium in the cloacal lavage (using an acid-fast stain). My idea was treating with supportive therapy and Hyper-immune Bovine Colostrum. This is an experimental treatment that some researchers have had some limited success with. Unfortunately, the animal I was trying to treat was really too far gone and was severely dehydrated and weak by the time I started efforts. It died during initial supportive measures within the first week. Some animals have been known to recover from clinical signs of Crypto and live for an extended period of time, however they (to my knowledge) have all continued to shed Crypto for the remainder of their lives, making them a danger to the rest of a collection.

On the subject of quarantine, I have to say that very few people I know actually have and follow a quarantine protocol. Most simply place a new animal right into their collection and hope for the best. I have a rigid quarantine protocol and do not vary from it. I know one person who, in the past year, has had two cases of severe RI in boids and one case of what appeared to me to be IBD as well as a severe infestation of snake mites, all in new additions introduced, unquarantined, into his collection. His collection is a time-bomb, but quarantine seems to be just too much trouble.

I have been using Chlorhexidine (Nolvasan) for years. It is quite safe and effective for the treatment of surface wounds as well, as I have used it on Dendrobates, as well as Drymarchon.
You need not spend 50.00 for a gallon of concentrate from Ft. Dodge in the form of Nolvasan, as you may purchase it in generic form, just as good, and approved for use in kitchens, unlike Nolvasan, for only 12.00 per gallon of concentrate.

Take care,
Jeff

On top of twice weekly cleanings, using Chlorhexidine, I also steam clean all of the enclosures every other week!

You guys' cages are cleaner than my house.

One question while we're on the subject:

What if your in a situation where you can't simply rinse out a cage? I like to use the Chlorine/water mix but I am afraid I can't get all of the chlorine out of the cage. Will just wiping it down with a clean wet cloth be ok? The Indigo's cage is just too big to be carrying around easily and it is not in an area where I can take a hose to it. I like summer when I can get all of the cage outside and rinse them good with the garden hose.

What do you suggest? Thanks.
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Gregory S. Hake

I use Dawn antibacterial dish wash liquid for all my tanks and tubs. If there is a dead snake or something icky, I use Lysol liquid concentrate. I'm afraid of using bleach as it kills everything basically...including snakes!!

Are all these fancy expensive liquids necessary??
I've never had a problem!

A.C.
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A.C.

www.gradeareptiles.com

AC, as I mentioned, if you purchase Nolvasan in the generic form, Chlorhexidine, it is only 12.00 per gallon of concentrate. You mix only .5 OZ with 2 gallons of water, and it not only sanitizes the enclosure, but knocks the odor out as well. However, it has no distinct smell to it, so it is not simply masking the odor. Also, you do not have to rinse, just spray and wipe.
I use anibacterial dawn, when scrubbing out my small sweater boxes, then spray them out with the Chlorhexidine and wipe them out. I also use it to spray out water bowls daily, when changing water.
I have just over 30 enclosures, not including sweater boxes, to clean and a gallon of concentrate lasts over 6 months, I feel as though it's very cost effective.

Where are you getting the generic Nolvasan ? All I kind find in my area is the non generic 40 bucks a bottle stuff.

Regards,

Keith
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CPL has it, I have attached their URL, so that you may take a look at it.

http://cplinc.net/chlorhexidine-products.shtml

Also, you may get it at Valley Vet:

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?ccd=INK003&pgguid=30E07B58-7B6A-11D5-A192-00B0D0204AE5

Hope this helps. If you still have problems getting it, let me know and I will get it for you.

Jeff

Cages and Accesories on Kingsnake 5$/24oz bottle, cases cheaper.. Joe Ellis from Lumberton NJ. Good guy.

I'll let you know how the stuff works out for me!

A.C.
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A.C.

www.gradeareptiles.com

I'm certain you will like it. Just remember to go lightly when mixing diluting it. .5 OZ added to a gallon of water works great. Mix it in a spray bottle, spray it into the enclosure, let it sit for a couple of minutes and wipe it out.
I'd avoid spending 5.00 - 8.00 for a premixed spray bottle, when you can buy the concentrate by the gallon and mix your own. A gallon of concentrate will make several hundred bottles of mixed solution, if mixed correctly, and only costs 12.00 - 14.00 dollars, depending on where you acquire it.
Jeez, do I sound like a sales rep, or what? I may call the company and demand my commission!

yes, you should get some commission!!

Ohh...only .5 oz per gallon?!? I thought I had read above 2.5 oz per 24 oz spray bottle! oops
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A.C.

www.gradeareptiles.com

Not with 2% Chlorhexidine concentrate!

Check your label to be certain, as various strengths are available.

I often feel as though my snakes live in a cleaner environment then I do!
You can spray and wipe the Chlorhexidine (Nolvasan) Pro-Exotics sells it in the diluted form as Virosan. There is no need to rinse it out. Also, it has no scent, but it absolutely kills any oder.
I mix at 5ml Chlorhexidine to 1L water in a large spray bottle. A gallon will last me 6 months with over 40 enclosures to clean.

Good luck,
Jeff

Looks like I hit a subject close to home... finally. Thanks again.

Hey there...

Been a long time since I posted here indeed. I used Nolvasan *EXCLUSIVELY** with my Eastern Indigos,Rubidus, and Boas, as well as my Pituophis. These snakes were housed primarily in vision cages, with water bowls that had disposable liners. I used Nolvasan on all cages with nor dire effect to the snakes. I would throw away newspaper(Substrate) and manually clean out any fecal matter in cage, then spary Nolvasan generously and allow it to stay on the surface sprayed for at least thirty minutes. Then I would hose off the cages outside, and allow them to dry in the sun. (Southern Calif) I HAVE used ammonia in the past and damn near aphixiated myself by doing so, after haveing inhaled a DILUTE solution in close quarters.. I have also used Bleach,but it put off to strong of a smell, which adversely affected both myself and my snakes. Nolvasan is good stuff, in my opinion. I have also used anti bacterial soap with good results. Cleaning with indigos is a NEVER ENDING PROCESS, and it is part of what you sign up for when you decide to keep them. Hope some of this helps.

Take care,

Fred Albury

I personaly use a strong solution of bleach, anti-bacterial soap, and water. And I wipe until it's absolutely dry. Whatya think? I got a pair from Drini about a year ago. My cages are just two big to drag outside.