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Large spots in black rat liver

Colchicine Jan 29, 2004 09:05 PM

Here are pictures of the liver from a black rattlesnake that was euthanized today. I expect it to have been at least fifteen years old, and suffered from the effects of what appeared to be a degenerative joint disease. I am still waiting on the write up from the veterinarian for all of the details.

The only thing of interest we found in the gross necropsy were the prominent spots in the liver. The largest of the spots were two to four millimeters, that penetrated through the liver as shown on the cross-section picture. In life, the color of the spots closely resembled the gallbladder fluid. I am aware that reptilian livers commonly have melanin deposits in them, but those are supposed to be amorphous and not nearly as large as this. I could not find any pictures or descriptions in the text fitting the phenomenon we observed. Other black rat snakes in the collection have been found with quite a significant infection of Capillaria sp. Could these be the effects of the hepatic worms? The vet also described the liver as friable.

We do have a section of the liver preserved in 10 percent formalin, but as you can imagine money is tight and I wanted to get an idea of what this could be before I send it off for analysis.

I felt very confident assuming that this snake was suffering from old age, despite disliking the idea that reptiles and amphibians waste away with old age. Any ideas on the cause of the liver discoloration, and how it relates to this snake would be great.

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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Replies (7)

Colchicine Jan 29, 2004 09:06 PM

No 2

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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

meretseger Jan 30, 2004 04:32 AM

Can a ratsnake* really die of old age at 15? Mine's at least 13, that's very depressing. He still seems pretty trim and healthy, for now.
I don't suppose it was a heavy drinker?

*it was a ratsnake and not a rattlesnake, right? you typed both
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

Colchicine Jan 30, 2004 08:11 AM

15 years old is the absolute minimum that snake could have been. All I know is that it was wild caught as an adult in 1991. I have no way of knowing if it was 25 or 35 years old. I typically despise when people write off health problems of a reptile or amphibian to old age, because it is usually hardly the case. This one, however was pretty obvious to us all.

It was a black rat snake, don't know how the rattle got in there, stupid speech recognition software!
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

meretseger Jan 30, 2004 12:00 PM

Whew, ok... According to the nice couple who gave him to me, my guy was purchased as a CB baby... of course, they also said that he should keep growing until he gets 13 feet long like his parents. At any rate, I shouldn't worry until I see him developing problems.
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

RaderRVT Jan 30, 2004 09:08 PM

My first gut reaction was melanoma. Do the spots feel solid and definable? They look like it from the picture. A cancer like melanoma would certainly result in friable hepatic tissue. I can't think of any other "tumor" that would result in such dark, obviously melanin filled masses. Just my thoughts.
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Stacey

RaderRVT Feb 02, 2004 07:44 PM


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Stacey

Colchicine Feb 17, 2004 07:43 PM

>>
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>>Stacey
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

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