Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all...

The reason I don't already have my own bp is because my husband really doesn't like snakes and distrusts them completely. He did allow us to get a colubrid to help foster our daughter's interest. Since then, my love for the animals has only grown and he's seen this and respects this. But still can't bring himself to trust them.

Last night, he said it might be possible for me to get my own bp this summer after we move again and get settled into our new home. His primary reservation is that it is a "dangerous" constricting animal and we have a small child. Our youngest is 19 months right now.

Now...I'm a grown, mature, responsible woman. I know the dangers any wild animal can pose. Actually, ANY animal, period...wild or domesticated. I would never allow the snake to be draped over my son's shoulders or neck. I would never allow the snake to be handled outside of my presence. I've already got plans to buy a really nice enclosure with a key-lock to keep curious toddler hands out of. (And to keep escape-artists IN!)

But all this is not quite enough to comfort my husband's fears. What he wants is hard numbers, studies, statistics.... He's an Air Force officer with an engineering degree...what else would you expect? He's not interested in "opinions" from snake lovers because "those would all be biased."

To sum up a rambling post...Do any of you know of any studies or reports or articles that show the anual number of non-venomous snake attacks in the US? Do any of you know of ANY instances of a small child being seriously injured by a ball python?

And besides that, I would still like to collect as much anecdotal evidence as I can from experienced keepers...despite hubby's distrust of "biased" keepers. So please share your personal experiences regarding bp's attacking, wrapping, and constricting humans.

Thank you for your patience in wading through all this, and for any help you may offer!

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

They may very well be able to help him get over his misconception so many people have about snakes.

No, I don't have any hard facts but I can't see anyone, no matter how big or small, ever getting seriously injured by a ball python. The only possible injury would be from a bite, which BP's are not inclined to do. They'd rather roll up into a ball and hide.

Good luck and tell your husband it's time he woke up and saw snakes as they really are instead of what the media has protrayed them to be.
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Rob Talkington

yeah, Balls are small and very delicat snakes. They make great pets. Like previous post said,the only way you could get hert from a ball in if it bit you, witch a CAT could do worse. You said you wouldny have it draped on your shoulder. I have hine on my shoulder all the time. Balls are generaly very tame. When I got mine She was very wild. and would hiss and recoil. but now she Is tamer than a dog. I love my baby girl and wouldnt trade her for the wourld. Your hubby will come around

I believe Eglin AFB deals with understanding and preserving the native wildlife on and around the vast expanse of the base itself. They don't deal with exotic pets from foreign continents.

>>I believe Eglin AFB deals with understanding and preserving the native wildlife on and around the vast expanse of the base itself. They don't deal with exotic pets from foreign continents.

Regardless, they would have knowledge and understanding of a snakes behavior in general. I bet all who are involved in the conservation of those snakes at the base would have knowledge about ball pythons. In fact, I'd be willing to bet you some of them have balls as pets. I find anyone involved with reptiles in work is bound to have them at home as well.

A lot of what Eglan deals with are pigmy rattlesnakes and those are much, much more dangerous than ball pythons. Those who deal with them will tell you they are not viscious creatures, though. That's what I'm getting at. It sounds to me your husband most likely has an attitude that concerns all snakes in general. If he were to listen to what a fellow officer that works with snakes has to say about them it may help him change that attitude. The problem with him is not with foreign, exotic snakes, it's with all snakes.

Good luck!!
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Rob Talkington

On top of all the snake phobia stuff we grew up with there is now the added annoyance of media drooling over any predatory animal behavior. I have gotten so sick of tv programs beating watchers over the head with chatty humans in khaki shorts prancing around in exotic locales annoying the local fauna. I don't know very many people talented enough to convince a bearded dragon to bite them in the face. I watched an Animal Planet program titled "the Beauty of Snakes" and was so irritated by the constant narration droning on and on about snakes being "deady killers from birth" etc. etc. I almost wrote to the network. The take-home message of the program was not beauty, but once again about how ruthless, calculating, and mechanical snakes are. Well, even that cute fluffy kitten you can get at any animal shelter is a predator (and is a lot less discerning about it too)!

I know about the program you are referring to with the english woman narrating. I agree most of that program pissed me off but in their defense, very little I might add, at the end they did try to portray the snake as necessary and docile creature. The problem with that program was if you wanted to get the positive message about the snakes you had to watch the entire program. 85% was negative!! Typical of the BS manipulative, greedy, money hungry, ass sucking media. I love Animal Planet but have seen them pushing into the "whatever gets ragings" line a little too much. Miami Precinct, Steve Austin and The Beauty of Snakes are the ones that most come to mind.
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Rob Talkington

If he insists on statistics you could contact public health agencies or medical societies to see if they keep stats on injuries due to snakes. Or, search for statistics on emergency room cases that were due to serious injuries from snakes. There's probably a summary in some file somewhere.

>>Hey all...
>>
>>The reason I don't already have my own bp is because my husband really doesn't like snakes and distrusts them completely. He did allow us to get a colubrid to help foster our daughter's interest. Since then, my love for the animals has only grown and he's seen this and respects this. But still can't bring himself to trust them.
>>
>>Last night, he said it might be possible for me to get my own bp this summer after we move again and get settled into our new home. His primary reservation is that it is a "dangerous" constricting animal and we have a small child. Our youngest is 19 months right now.

I have never been biten or wrapped by a BP so, I can't help you there.
I did do a web search and found only a handful of news items for pet snakes constricting owners and they were all Burmese, Retics and AfRocks ...the GIANTs. I did hear something about someone's 10ft boa killing him last year in Colorado. I simply can't imagine a BP seriously hurting (besides possibly a bitemark) anyone. BPs rarely get over 5ft. If you get a young snake by the time it is even a couple feet your little child will be 4yo at least. Are you planning more kids? Is he worried about infants? Even then. Deaths by over 10 ft snakes, left free roam (like that is smart) is the closest you are gonna get. I can't imagine it from a BP.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

Another tack you could take with him is to remind him why snakes constrict. To catch and kill prey primarily. They are fairly fussy about what they eat and rely on smell, size, and temp to identify prey. Humans don't smell right and are way too large for a snake that preys on rodents so they would not be stimulated to constrict a human anyway. The accidents snake keepers suffer are so often due to a Stupid Feeding Error (have him read the Feeding Error stories on the NERD site) when the snake simply made a mistake and struck a keeper who had prey smell on his hands. Snakes don't constrict out of aggression or anger. A snake MIGHT constrict if it feels it is not secure and is in danger of falling.

I'm not being lazy and asking anyone else to do my research. I've already started and have spent a lot of time searching the 'Net for relavent information. I've also been studying bp's for well over a year now, and handling them every chance I get...so I know their general temperments and living history very well. I know all the right "arguments" to convince someone that they are good pets.

What I'm hoping for, is for someone to point me in a direction of research I might not have already found...like a friend on another forum pointed me toward a National Safety Council report that is very helpful. Or some keywords to search that don't readily come to mind but could be helpful.

I'm also hoping that those who've had many snakes for many years might offer a statement based on their personal experience.

Thank you to those who've taken the time to try and help so far.

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

There won't be any statistics on Ball Python attacks on humans, because they don't exsist. I don't even think a Ball is strong enough to seriously choke a human to death. Maybe a pencil-necked weakling who panics and passes out, landing on the snake and causing it to become insanely angry and vengeful. But yeah, that's not going to happen. Bottom line, a four foot non-venomous snake is not going to kill any healthy human.

If you'd read a little more closely maybe, you'd see that I'm not talking about risks to a healthy adult...I'm talking about risks to a toddler...."pencil necked weakling" that he may be!

I KNOW I'm not going to find anything specific regarding balls...which is why I asked for information from experienced keepers as well. THe information I'm hoping to find online (or from other documented sources) is general statistics regarding accidental injury or fatality from non-venomous snakes in general.
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

I think you might have missed my point or maybe I was to vauge. What I meant was, your toddler is no danger. It usually takes some severe pain to make a Ball act violently. The picture I had in my head with "pencil-necked" comment was your stereotypical, pastey-faced, highschool geek. I, personally, don't agree with small children holding snakes at all. They don't have a concept of "too much pressure", they don't know that they need to move slowly (especially with a Ball), they basically don't know because they're still new, themselves. I'd say four is about as young as I'd go for allowing my children to hold any snake and I'd probably still be a little apprehensive about it. Just to clear something up, in case it becomes an issue, I am not saying that you're a bad parent...this is just my own personal preference. Your toddler is in no danger, even while holding the snake. The snake on the other hand...

A snake won't kill anything it can't eat. It pretty much knows that it can't eat your child, so it will never try to. The only time a Ball Python will bite, will be 100% your fault. The only time my snake has bitten me in almost eight years was during a feeding response and was completely my fault...every Ball breed will tell you the same thing. Snakes are not human, they don't kill for pleasure or sport. Snakes kill to eat. A constrictor will not kill in self defense. A Ball Python's teeth, when full grown to 4-5', will be around a 1/4 of an inch long. A hit from a Ball barely hurts and doesn't really bleed very much either, compared to an Iggy anyway.

I'm going to be completely frank and honest, now. Your husband is being ridiculous and has let his ignorance turn into fear. If my 55 year old mother can hold my snake and give him a shot every three days in his neck, your husband can learn to deal with a Ball in the house. I should mention that my mother is deathly afraid of snakes. Both of my parents are retired Air Force and my father is a CMSGT-retired, so I know the resistance that you're meeting. I basically have to slam my fathers nose in a book to get him to accept the facts in it. If he's a caring and supportive spouse, he'll take the time to learn about your interests and hobbies. His attitude, seems to be the biggest problem. I mean no disrepect by any of this, I just feel that it's fair to be 100% honest in a situation like this.

I appreciate your time.

However, there are plenty of documented cases of large constrictors killing humans that they couldn't possibly eat. Now, before your feathers get ruffled, I KNOW I'm not talking about giant snakes, but a bp. But to drop a blanket statement like that (most especially an inaccurate one) is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

I agree that it seems my husband is being unreasonable. I've certainly had similar thoughts during our conversations. However, you have to remember that he HAS already consented to one snake in the house despite his reservations because of his respect for me and my interests. And he IS considering consenting to a bp as well. He is doing his best to accomodate my desires and get past his own reservations. Now it is up to me to help ease his misgivings. The best way to do so is by "speaking his language." And that is by using as many facts as I can dig up...not by using blanket statements and emotional arguments.

Some of ya'll seem to demand that HE respect me. And you seem to think that means giving in to whatever I want without considering how he feels about it. That is nonsense.

"He'll come around..." Yes...eventually he will. I truly hope that someday he'll be a partner in these endevours, rather than a reluctantly "supportive" spouse. But I won't ever get there by badgering him to see things my way.

I've asked for help finding information...not for people to pass judgement on my husband.

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

One thing I've learned over the years is there is a big difference between making a decision based on fact and logic (like your hubby is genuinely trying to do) and making it based on an emotional gut reaction (that your hubby is also probably trying to do at the same time). Even if you find the type of facts you hope to, it may not make it easier for him. It is very difficult to lay aside an emotional reaction to something and we often don't realize this. The logical side of our mind is pounding out the facts but the emotional side is not listening. I can appreciate his discomfort...fear of snakes is so common and often very deep. He's trying and that's the main thing. It sounds like you are really working on this so I hope it comes out OK. What about "borrowing" a nice tame bp for a visit of a couple of weeks so he can watch all the aspects of one for a while without committing?

>>
>>Some of ya'll seem to demand that HE respect me. And you seem to think that means giving in to whatever I want without considering how he feels about it. That is nonsense.
>>
>>"He'll come around..." Yes...eventually he will. I truly hope that someday he'll be a partner in these endevours, rather than a reluctantly "supportive" spouse. But I won't ever get there by badgering him to see things my way.

I think you are doing a great job with your relationship. Not that you need my approval I am sure. But I thought it was a step for him and that is tough for many who are NOT snake people.
My dh has a thing about arachnids. So, no Tarantula or scorpions in our house. He doesn't need reasons. He doesn't want them. I respect his dislike and love him for being totally with me for so many other things. Wish I had some numbers for your husband. I suspect it is more a comfort with size thing. Has he seen or possibly held a fully adult BP? Maybe that would help.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

If you can't take cold, hard, honesty...don't ask for help. I'm not getting my "feathers ruffled", I'm trying to be honest with you. The problem is 100% your husband's fear, if that's passing judgement, then so be it. He has consented to a Corn Snake, which is far more likely to bite your child than a Ball Python is. This is not a blanket statement. This is not an emotional statement. This is a fact of snakes. I've been bitten several times by Corn's and very few times from Balls. Why? Because Corns are more outgoing that Balls and they don't hide when confronted...they bite.

Let's compare apples with apples, shall we? The deaths cause by a 13 foot snake do not relate, in any way, shape or form to an "attack" by a Ball. You might aswell give him the stats on hot snakes while you're at it. They'll be just as relevant.

Mutual respect. This is what you're speaking of. After eight years in my relationship, I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you're talking about. Why don't you respect the fact that he doesn't want the Ball in the house at all and just be happy with the Corn? That's the flip side of it. If you're going to be snappy, at least look at both sides of an argument first. If my woman said she didn't want something in the house that she was terribly afraid of, or didn't want another one, I'd respect that and I wouldn't even push the issue. And on the flip side, she doesn't exactly like the fact that I want a Blood Python and a Red Tail, but she's taken the time to educate herself on these snakes. "Speaking his language" is going to cause you more greif than good, because all of your stats are going to come from large and/or aggressive snakes. To put it into a linguistic metophor, you think you're asking "where the bathroom is" in Spanish, but in reality you're saying "I've just gone all over myself". Counter productive.

I'm sorry I tried to be completely honest with you. I won't bother with further replies.

I appreciate your time.

However, there are plenty of documented cases of large constrictors killing humans that they couldn't possibly eat. Now, before your feathers get ruffled, I KNOW I'm not talking about giant snakes, but a bp. But to drop a blanket statement like that (most especially an inaccurate one) is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

I agree that it seems my husband is being unreasonable. I've certainly had similar thoughts during our conversations. However, you have to remember that he HAS already consented to one snake in the house despite his reservations because of his respect for me and my interests. And he IS considering consenting to a bp as well. He is doing his best to accomodate my desires and get past his own reservations. Now it is up to me to help ease his misgivings. The best way to do so is by "speaking his language." And that is by using as many facts as I can dig up...not by using blanket statements and emotional arguments.

Some of ya'll seem to demand that HE respect me. And you seem to think that means giving in to whatever I want without considering how he feels about it. That is nonsense.

"He'll come around..." Yes...eventually he will. I truly hope that someday he'll be a partner in these endevours, rather than a reluctantly "supportive" spouse. But I won't ever get there by badgering him to see things my way.

I've asked for help finding information...not for people to pass judgement on my husband.

The burden of proof is on him, not on you. Let HIM research to his heart’s delight. If he can find one instance of a child “being seriously injured by a ball python” (I believe that was the requirement), tell him you’ll pay him one thousand dollars. If he can find one instance of a ball python killing an adult, a child or an infant, tell him not only will you pay him one thousand dollars, but you will also give up your quest for his permission, and get rid of your other snake for good measure. Doesn’t that sound more than fair? Set a reasonable deadline of a month or two for his research. Tell him to get busy. And remember, you want hard proof, not “my buddy’s ex-wife’s second cousin saw it on the Jerry Springer Show.”

By the way, do you have a pet dog or cat? Any knives or other sharp objects in your house? Any guns? Does he allow you to take your child for a drive in the car? If he does some wading through morbidity and mortality reports, he should find some horrifying statistics relating to those dangers.

Thank you. That was my point exaclty.

...I apologize for taking some things personally and getting defensive and touchy. My fault, apparently, for not better explaining what I was looking for, and compounding that with too much personal information.

Dexter -- Thank you for your "cold, hard honesty." The facts and figures you laid down have been invaluable. Not to mention the relationship advice.

Sarcasm aside, I really do appreciate everyone's help and the apology is sincere.

jfmoore -- That's an excellent point. If he's not satisfied with the answers I can come up with, then I will make that suggestion. Thank you.

Carlton -- Interesting thought to "borrow" a snake. That's a pretty original idea. I don't know where I would actually come up with one, but should the need to do so arise, I will put in the effort to find one.

Everyone else -- Thank you again for your time and effort.

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

I really should be more mature than this, but whatever.

You're more than welcome. Any time I can help, don't hesitate to ask.

Your problem, not mine.