Reptile & Amphibian Forums

n/p

This is the time of year for new BP owners to pull out their hair.
Weigh the snake and if it looks good now and is not losing then be even more patient. Knowing the weight may help your peace of mind. Some seem not to eat for forever.

Second thought. If this is a young snake treat it like the most nervous corn you can imagine. Let it settle in with NO handling for a couple weeks to a month. Then try to feed it. DON'T try to feed it more than once a week. It will just pester it further from eating.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

n/p

it's possible that this could be normal off-feed behavior some BPs exhibit. If so, as long as it's not losing weight (you must actually weigh not eye it) then you should be fine.

However, the possiblity that your BP is stressed due to incorrect housing should not be ignored. I think if you can rule that out then it's probably safe to assume it's normal off-feed behavior. I worry (especially with new owners & I'm not sure if you are new to bp ownership) immediately jump to the conclusion that it's normal off-feed behavior and ignore the other possibility and possibly creating big problems later (and vet bills). If there are problems with your setup that can lead to stress, illness and going off-feed. If your willing, more information would be needed regarding your housing and parameters to help rule that out.

Info such as:
age of bp
cage size
# hides & where
temps on warm and cool side
where and with what are you measuring temps
how long have you had
what was it eating and how long ago since last meal
what are you trying to feed now
how are sheds
weight history
how is heat provided
(pics of setup would help)
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Currently she is house in a 2'x 2' x 2' melamine cage with glass doors, newspaper covers the bottom. It has a hide on the hot side. Currently the hot side is 88-90 using a uth (flexwatt thermostat controlled) and the cool side is about 80. A water bowl big enough for her to get in is located on the cool side. Humidity in the room runs 40-60% right now.

tom

So far sounds good, except a hide should also be on the cool side. Temps sound fine (assuming they are measured in the correct places). just make sure the hides are nice and snug - not too big.

How long since the last meal and how long have you had him?

I forgot to ask - what's your bp's name?
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1.0 Ball Python
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0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

I will put a hide on the cool side tonight. I have only had her for a week she was give to me by a breed because he was tired of her not eating and having to force feed her. She is probably 3 months old. Has never eaten on her own. Was last force fed one week ago.

She does not have a name yet, not sure if she will survive. Plus with 80 snakes I have stopped naming them. This is our first ball though.

tom

1 week ago...snakes should be fed once per 2 weeks!so, she is 3 months old...they don't eat very often!
2 days ago i was watching documentary about pythons...new hatched python ate 1 mouse and they said it would be enough for 6 months!
so if she/he didn't eat for 1 week...don't worry, he/she is not even hungry yet!!try in a week or two!
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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

and here is a photo of my BP eating a mouse!
hope yours will be eating like mine soon!

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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

Hopefully you don't have to force feed. it is very possible that the last owner didn't have a proper setup and that's why she didn't eat. can't remember how long you said you had her, but i'd make sure all your parameters are right, give her a week or 2 to settle in (monitor weight) and then try feeding - not force feeding.

Best of luck!
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"Kira"

n/p

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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

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0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

>>I will put a hide on the cool side tonight. I have only had her for a week she was give to me by a breed because he was tired of her not eating and having to force feed her. She is probably 3 months old. Has never eaten on her own. Was last force fed one week ago.

Force fed or assist fed? I mean, did you put food in her mouth and let her go or is it tubed or 'forced' all the way down?

I really think a lot of the wild caught especially and some of the CB BP babies are slow starters and we are impatient people.

I have my first two hatchlings (first ever I hatched here) from last year and they have only ever assist fed. Refused live in any way shape or form and have taken prekilled with acceptance but not f/t. Month old and losing weight when I first assisted and they dove at them. ONCE recently one of them actually snapped up a prekilled small mouse. But things that I have learned (and these are hatched the first of Sept 03 as well as dozens of imported babies in the pet trade when I managed a ps) that if you are to a point were they will close their mouth on the prey once you have opened their mouth with the mouse's nose then they are a hairs breadth away from eating on their own. Once you can get them to wrap that is another big step.
Often if the head is in their mouth and you stop moving and can continue to hold them they will wrap your hand or the prey and start to swallow on their own.

If they are backing up and NOT having anything to do with the prey (convulsively almost)then they are not gonna take it. I would stop and go back in 5-7 days.

With my two, and any that I did at the store when I worked there, they will sometimes go several weeks, especially if they are in shed. They will also tend to accept the assist much faster if they are good and hungry. I would rather see you offer every week or two then every 4 days. BPs are like elephants...they never forget I swear.

A couple of other points. In my mind I wouldn't just let her go too long if she is that little and in the circumstance of not ever eating. BUT, a little cooling may kick her back in if she has okay weight and can go a month. This helped mine.

Don't lose hope. I have seen many start this way and go on to be voracious eaters. If she has gained any weight this way I would give her a lot more hope than if she hasn't. What is her weight?
My meager experience.
Sonya
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

here is a picture of my terarium...take a look, my BPseems to be doing fine in there
about feeding...don't worry.when i got mine he wasn't eating for like 2 months, snakes can survive fine for much longer!
try to offer him a baby mouse...1 week old!if he's hungry, he will eat it for sure!
he is in a tank: 4inX4inX2in!
average temperatue is 86
hope this picture helps!

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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

>>here is a picture of my terarium...take a look, my BPseems to be doing fine in there
>>about feeding...don't worry.when i got mine he wasn't eating for like 2 months, snakes can survive fine for much longer!
>>try to offer him a baby mouse...1 week old!if he's hungry, he will eat it for sure!
>>he is in a tank: 4inX4inX2in!
>>average temperatue is 86
>>hope this picture helps!
>>
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>>1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
>>0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
>>0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

I'm just curious because I also don't see a hide. Also, it is important to point out not eating is not always a thing BP's do just because. I'm not certainly trying to be rude but am just asking because if you're going to give advise it's important you really do know what you're talking about. Please don't take offense.
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Rob Talkington

he loves to be on the upper right corner behind vase, or on the middle floor behind the root.sometimes he is hidden in the lower left corner in the orange vase.i will add a hideout soon, but i had much work with my Uromastyx lizards tank!
my thermal gradient is in the uros tank, just to see if the temps are rihtg in there.
it is a digital one and it works real good!the temps are high enough...he has 1 UV lamp, 1 60 cm sun light, 1 60W bulb and 2 undertank heaters!and there is also a radiator behind his tank (the terarium was too long and it cover 1/3 of the radiator!

i didn't quite understand what were u trying to say with...BP is not just because?!
young snakes need feedin less often then adult!and feeding once a week is a way too often as far as i know (reading and watching documentaries)
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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

Well, once a week feeding is not way too often in fact is the norm as far as everything I've read.

FYI, ballpythons need a thermal gradient because they need a place they can be warm and also cool down. They don't have the ability to regulate their body temperature so the have to do it with their environment.

Also, ball pythons do not necessarily need any uv light whatsoever. They are nocturnal snakes and don't especially like the light. They need hiding spots they can completely get out of site in. They prefer a hide with a hole in it they can curl up in to feel safe. A ball python will usually prefer a hiding spot instead of a place that is at the ideal temperature. That's why it is important to have a hiding spot in both the warm and cool area in it's cage.

Your snake may be eating fine right now but in time if it's cage is not set up in the proper way, which yours really is not, it will stop eating. This will not be due to it just going off of feed, it will be because it is stressed out and will then become sick and eventually die.

I'm not sure what documentary you're talking about on TV but you need to make sure it's about ball pythons for one thing and for another you'll want to make sure it's current. There are a lot of books out there that were printed a long time ago that will suggest things about the care of ball pythons that are inaccurate.

What you want to do is read care sheets that are below. They are current information for the care of ball pythons and you can trust what they say. I think you'll see you may need to adjust your set up.

Caresheet 1
Care Sheet 2
Care Sheet 3

Good luck friend and please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions on what you read!!!!
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Rob Talkington

i can't say he will stop eating...he eats 3 mice pre 2 weeks, and i think he needs more...he's hungry all the time!lol

i'm thinikg of placing some hiding spots, but i need a good idea what should they look like!every pet store i go in, i'm looking for sth that would be good for my BP!
when i got him i gave him a shoe box...it was good for start, but now i have to find sth more estetic!
and i've read all the caresheets i've found on the web, but thx anyway for your caresheets!
i'm done with my uros tank and now it's time to rebuild his!
when i'm done i'll post a picture!
about UV light...they need it, because UV makes vitamin D3 active, which is important for their bones!!!
every high evolved living creature needs UV...even you!
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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

snakes get all their calcium and vitamin D through their diet. besides, ball pythons are nocturnal - so they wouldn't really get UV in the wild.
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For hiding spots you could use the base of a terracotta flower pot with a hole in the side or you could use a small cardboard box. Basically what you want is a container big enough he can fit into and small enough where he will be touching the sides so he feels secure, kinda like you being tucked in really tight in bed.

I understand what you're saying about the UVB and yes, I do need it to be mentally healthy. A ball python does not need the UVB as it does get it's d3 in the liver of the rodents you feed it. Breeders with years and years or keeping ball pythons will tell you the same thing. They have no UVB producing items of any kind and have very healthy pythons, ones that live upwards of 35 years! You certainly can't argue with that logic !

It's good you are going to redo your bp's cage because you really do need to . Try to focus on floor space and not so much on height as ball pythons are ground dwellers and not arboreal like a green tree python who would apprecate the height.

Your thermal gradiant is okay except it won't be long before your snake wraps itself around that bulb and you will have a cooked snake on your hands. Seriously, you will have a burnt, sufferring snake that will need immediate medical attention. I don't think you want that. Even though you saw it does not have the ability to reach the bulb you will be surprised one day when he is either dead or in very bad shape. May even happen in the next days or so, too. BP's aren't like you and I where we know the heat is dangerous from a light bulb and we can even touch the bulb and immediately pull back. BP's will stay on the bulb due to the lack of nerves in their skin until it is too late. Also, you won't notice a burn right after it happens. The skin on a bp may not show injuries on the skin until a while after they happen.

I'd get that cage done as soon as you possible can. If you have an under tank heater and need a temporary place to put your baby you can use a rubbermaid container with the undertank heater. You just need to make sure you have either a thermostat or dimmer/rheostat on the pad to make sure it doesn't get too hot.

You are most likily right, your snake needs to be fed more. That's why you have that feeling.

Good luck and make sure you keep asking questions and get ideas because it's the best thing you can do! Email me privately if you need to. I'm sure there's a couple of others who would be willing to get your email as well.

Take care!
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Rob Talkington

What do you mean the thermal gradient is in the uro enclosure?

Rob was asking about your bp setup - you need a thermal gradient in the bps setup. meaning different temps on the warm side and different temps on the cool side so your bp can thermoregulate.

warm side 90-95
cool side 80-85

belly heat is important, but i also think it is nice to have the belly heat supplemented with overhead heat. i would think in a cage that high you would need multiple thermometers to measure temps at the various levels (insuring temps arent too high or too low).

your bp needs at least on hide on the warm side and at least one hide on the cool side. the hides should be tight and snug and be mostly enclosed to help them feel secure.

when rob said "Also, it is important to point out not eating is not always a thing BP's do just because."
He was saying that it's not good advice to tell people that the reason their bp is not eating is because it's perfectly normal. there are other reasons they may not eat and if not addressed can lead to big problems. (correct me if I'm wrong Rob).

Young BPs should be feed an appropriately sized meal every 5-7 days. Adults 7-10 days. I've never seen anything different.
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"Kira"

I think it might be wise to put hides on the shelves and 2 on the bottom (one on the warm side and one on the cool side) - again there must be a thermal gradient on the ground.

how tall is that? i'm wondering if the height might be wasted on a bp? he could be using all the shelves right now because he's looking to feel secure since there aren't any appropriate hides (especially if temps aren't right).
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1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
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0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

i already said that his tank is next to rebuild, because i was rebuildin my uros tank for 2 days!
i didn't say it prefectly normal that she doesn't eat, but i said that she could be fine now.then i said, that he should wait a week or two and then try again!
mine wasn't eating for 2 months...new home etc.!
sry i misunderstood statement...thermal gradient...on the middle floor is the hot spot (it's that bulb who is heating it), the cool side is on the bottom floor.about measuring temps...i move my thermometer round the tank to see if temps are right...they are...hot side is 88 or a bit more!on the upper right corner there is radiator behind tank, so the back side of tank is nicely warm!

and if his BP is not eating right now, i think it is because of new enviroment!it's best to leave it alone for a week!
maybe he is in a process of shedding (snakes don't eat when they shed)!
he should also visit a vet to do a test of parasites!
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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

Actually, my Ball will take food pretty much whenever I offer it to him. In fact, his eyes just started going blue last night, are fully blue right now and he's still "asking" for a meal. And he's sick.

Your max temps are about three degrees off, 78-92. Pretty much every care sheet I've ever read has said 92 is about as high as you should go.

Oh yeah, you're correct in thinking that the heighth is wasted on a Ball.

actually i've read that balls love to climb on a tree.every night i got to sleep, i see him climbing on that branches!
but id i add another floor closer to the bulb he will be able to reach it!
he can't reach it now, because i saw him trying and he fell down (he's not long enough)!
so, it's 9.30 am now and it's time to start rebuilding his tank!
it will be ready soon!
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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

Yeah mine likes to climb, and he's fine with the 17 inches of height he has. I'd imagine as they get older climbing won't be as often. Hey, now there's an excuse to get another snake! Get a smaller cage for your BP and get an arboreal species snake for the current cage! LOL. I'm always looking for an excuse to get more.

I almost wonder if he's climbing so much due to having no secure place to hide, temperatures or because he's hunting and hungry? BPs aren't extremely active - and I wonder if a well fed one is even less so? My guy only comes out for a few hours each night - unless shedding or digesting then he doesn't come out or stays out less. He climbs a bit and then just perches himself on a branch. If it's the night before feeding time he is all over the place.

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1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

well i feed him once per 2 weeks, with 3 mice!that's enough, he's 1m long!
his next feeding time is on friday or thursday!and he is shedding now, so i'll wait he is done with it and the feed him!
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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

How old is your snake? Three mice every two weeks is nowhere near enough food. Try something as big as the snakes largest section, depending on the size of your Ball it could be a rat pup to a medium sized rat. Once a week for youngsters and every two weeks for adults. If you can't get rats, feed every week so you don't have to feed seven or eight mice at once.

I've had mine for almost eight years and he'll definitely climb on anything around him. But it's just because they're inquisitive snakes. They'll climb around on whatever you put into their cage, but all said and done they're terrestrial snakes. The heighth of your current cage would be great for a Green Tree Python or Boa, but your Ball would be happier if you turned the cage on it's side for more floor space. Your snake doesn't want to hide behind the flower pot, he wants something low, tight and dark to hide in. Remember, in the wild they inhabit rodent burrows. And your lights should always be isolated somehow, you should set your cage safety up like your snake can stand straight up on its tail.

Yeah, I usually say 92 max, but recently I've noticed quite a few experienced keepers and breeders saying 95 is okay but the absolute max. I've also never heard anyone say below 80-85 for a daytime temp on the cool side - nighttime maybe, but not daytime.
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1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

thats a pretty nice setup arent the lights supposed to be out of reach from the snake though? so they dont burn themself or anything? nice snake tooo

they are out of her reach...she can't reach it...i was insure too, but then i watched her trying to get to the upper lights, but she didn't succed!
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1.0.0 Ball python (Oz)
0.0.1 Hardwicki Uro (Amon)
0.1.0 Black cat (Tomika)

I can clearly see in the pic that she can easily touch the lights.

"young snakes need feedin less often then adult!and feeding once a week is a way too often as far as i know (reading and watching documentaries)"

That is dead wrong, young snakes eat more often than adults.

I feed my hatchlings 2-3 times a week and I can assure you its not too often...

Yeah, he can surely touch those lights - you just may not have seen him do it yet or he hasn't really tried yet. That looks like a potential problem.

That is dead wrong, young snakes eat more often than adults.

You're right. I didn't catch the incorrect statement the first time around. Young eat more often than adults. They're growing.

Blinky, when you say you feed 2-3 times a week, do you mean 2-3 food items one day a week or 2-3 different days in a week?
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1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

"Blinky, when you say you feed 2-3 times a week, do you mean 2-3 food items one day a week or 2-3 different days in a week?"

1 food item 2-3 times a week until they hit 250-300 grams, then I drop it down to 1-2 weekly.

What size item do you feed, rat pups or adult mice?