Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi guys,
im in a dificult situation and i need some advise.....so here is the story.....i decided to purchase a large amout of darts recentlly.....D. auratus, D. tincs. (cobalts & yellowbacks) and E. vitattus, anyway because of the failure to have the package held at the post office to be picked up the shipment rode on a very chilly delivery truck and ended up arriving totally frozen. The sender admiting fault offered to resend the order, seeing how nice the auratus were i decided to add 4 more to the re-shipment, come to my surprise when the darts arrived (very alive this time) i was charged for shipping the second shipment.....on top of that one of the cobalts and one of the auratus only have one eye (is this a normal mutation to occur or is this from fighting?), and on top of that compared to the add posted i was charged $5 extra per frog for one of the species i ordered and when asked about it i got the response of "well i post a lot of adds and some have different prices on them" i feel like im genually getting screwed over on that part, but back to the shipping thing......should "the sender" have the right to charge me for shipping just cause i added four frogs? cause if i would have known it i wouldnt have added em........is this normal? Cause i feel like i'm getting the short end of the stick. Thanks

****THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE*******

As far as whether the breeder should pay shipping, it all depends on what the conditions of the first sale were (if breeder has a websited, start there), what the substance of the conversation between the first and second shipment was, and who was supposed to determine when and how to ship the first shipment. Remember, when you are making an order of any sort, you are establishing a binding contract and have the option of establishing terms yourself. If you don't iron out the details, you might not be legally at fault, but in practical terms it will be your fault for not taking control of the situation to clarify ambiguities.

I suggest contacting the breeder if you feel like you have been unfairly treated. If that doesn't work, you always have options. Just realize that it is usually cheaper to conduct business without a written contract, but you sometimes pay for it on the back end.

The preceding was not legal advice, nor was it intended to establish an attorney/client relationship.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

Let me see if I have this right? Your first order froze, and then you paid for the shipping for the second order? I think that is fair, due to it being the shipping parties fault that they froze. IF you added 4 frogs, you should be responsible for the charge on those, and shipping. Now I would want the the eyeless frogs repalced, but that is just me, and shipping on those would be yours to send them back and the sellers to send the new ones.

Just my opinions, but I see what you are saying, but at least in this case the only thing that could be the sellers fault are the eye less frogs. Oh and shipping in this weather! Most breeders will not ship unless nighttime temps are over 40 or so. So as low as 20. Not sure where you are but it is 5 here right now, and i'm sure much cooler last night.
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Kyle
www.kylesphotos.com
Dart Links - still a work in progress
1.2.0 D. leucomelas
1.1.0 D. azureus
1.0.1 D. imitators
0.0.2 D. ventrimaculatus

First let me say the frogs with only 1 eye where shipped that way. These frogs should have not been sold.
As for the shipping issue, you should pay for the shipping. I have lost frogs from a breeder before and had to eat the shipping cost. The breeder lost the frogs, you lost the shipping charge. Now them charging you an extra $5 per frog on a species, bs, the only frogs you should pay for are the extra 4 frogs, now if theey price has changed on those then that is fair, it goes to the issue of supply and demand.
With all that said, any breeder that would send frogs with missing eyes will never get my return buisness. To me it says that they are not breeding their own animals, and more likely a wholesale redistrubuter. To me it is all about the quality of product not price!

Benjamin Green

I feel that if the sender ADMITTED FAULT he/she should pay the shipping, even with the added frogs. This is called GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE. We already know that he/she is not worried about the QUALITY of frogs he/she sends or they would all have their eyes.................That ALONE should be enough for him/her to want to correct a wrong with a customer. As far as the $5 extra I would have said I ordered them off of the $5 less ad. If his/her prices are not consistant, he/she is not acting like a professional. He/she should know their own prices and give you the benefit of the doubt if they have increased them. But he/she already said they were advertised at VARIOUS prices????????????? Not very good advertising. All in all this does not sound like a person I would like to do business with and I would love for you to tell me who this is so I don't get the same............. If you would please e-mail me @ DATUDISME@MSN.COM

TonyT

P.S. Hope I did not offend anyone, just my .02

The one eyed frog thing is a by product of raising your tadpoles in groups. They get hungry sometimes, and eyes and toes get nibbled. You should look to see if they have all their rear toes!
I am dying to know who it was as well, so drop me an email and let me know if you dont mind! Patrick@Saurian.net

I would like to know who is selling the frog in that condition...

Christian

Sorry.. I forgot my e-mail

christianpellerin@hotmail.com

Many people have showed interest in knowing who this person is that i had the priviledge of dealing with. All who have inquired about who this guy is will soon get to know.......i am going to call today to talk to him and find out how he plans to make up for his mistakes.....after that i will post another update and then send all of you his info so you may never have to deal with such bs. thanks for all the info posted....i appreciate your perspectives.

Alan

P.S. I plan on paying for shipping of the second shipment even though it was becuse of his failure to get the package held at the ups office, and failure to package the shipment correctly that led to the death of the frogs.

I'd also like to know, although from the frogs described and the terrible customer service I've got a pretty good idea.

thanks again for all the replies! heres the deal. After talking to the guy he finally agreed to credit us the $20 for the overcharged frogs back. As far as the one eyed frogs, he offered to throw in a few free frogs when i ordered from him again....but wouldnt compensate us in $$. the question was "why would i want to order from you again if i had to deal with all this B.S. in the first place!!" So to inform everyone who is interested i will send you his info so that you will never have to deal with the stress of similar situations. To those who have already inquired ive got your e-mails already and will send it to you.....if you want to know just send me your e-mail address one way or another and i will send it along.....all i ask is that you return the favor so i dont have to deal with this in the future.
Thanks
Alan

if you could shoot me an email as well, i would appreciate it. i am shopping for another specific frog, and would like to be certain who to steer clear of.

thanks,
maxwells

maxwells_demon@yahoo.com

Many people dont realize that Kingsnake offers you a way to get back at vendors who send you one eyed frogs and then tell you "too bad". Go to http://market.kingsnake.com/complaint.php and you will see that Kingsnake would like to hear from you if you have a problem. It directs you to go to the Terms of Service page, where you will find this policy "Vendor Complaints - Please note that UNLESS the complaint involves non-delivery of goods or theft, all vendors have a three complaint rule. Get three complaints and you have to resolve them ALL before we can allow you to post again"
If every one that I knew who had been ripped off or treated poorly by this vendor had done something about it, he wouldnt have been around to rip off Alan!!!
As a honest vendor it galls me to see these people get away with this, so do something about these "bad apples"!
Patrick Nabors

Me too, sorry for your troubles!

mchen65@hotmail.com

thanks-maggie

I want to know! I have a pretty good Idea as well but still want to confirm my suspicions.
Tim
E-mail: tjstout@arborgen.com

np
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MIKE
4.14 Leopards (SHTCT, and Jungle Albino Trempers)
2.13 Fat Tails (Amels, Hets, and Normals)
1.1 Teratolepis Fasciata
1.3 Crested geckos
0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius (Citronellas)
1.0 Diamond Back Terrapin
14 Snakes (Tri colored hogs, subocs, alterna, rosy boas, and black milks)