Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok..heres the deal.. sorry if i start to ramble but this just pisses me off
ok to top my bad luck off since i got back into collecting herps mostly leos half of them have gotten sick and died (take in mind that these were bought from pet stores and looked healthy un till about 2-3weeks of them being in my care) most recent deaths..by blizz adult and tang juvi that was sunday,,now this morning i go to check up on my other leos and my jungle albino i got at the herp show from alberto had pooped watery, what happend to them being the most hardy herp to keep? that must only apply to some keepers..befor i got back into leos i have over 30 and not one ever got sick..so i must be doing things right...i have 6 leos now..i had 9 last monday out of those 6 1 has gotten sick heck..he wasnt doing well since i got him i fugured buying a leo from a reputable breeder was better than buying from a pet store..i still belive that but now this is just crazy i have made a promise to myself that i will NEVER buy another leo from now on its just going to be beardies chameleons and uromastyx...take no offense to this anyone as it it not directed to anyone on this forum im just SUPER pissed right now and felt like typing this up
have a nice day.

Sounds like you bought a case of cryptosporidium. That was a huge problem a couple years ago with cheap show leos and big chainstore leos. Once you get it, it WILL wipe out everything you have and it's 100% fatal. Do a search on the archived Leopard gecko forum. http://forum.kingsnake.com/lgecko/index_a.html

I hate to be so cynical but I can almost guarentee it from your explanation.
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Rick-Geckoland USA

Some pet store chains purchase their geckos directly from Gourmet Rodent, and only that source, no other - they are a big breeder - are they selling infected geckos? I don't know...what I do know is it doesn't matter who you buy your geckos from, something can come of it. I purchase several geckos from a big name breeder, one of which was typhoid Mary. She was in a different tank for about a month (should have kept her separate longer - but I was newer to things back then, she hadn't gained or lost any weight, figured she was just never going to be a fat leo, amybe to active to keep too much weight on. Put her into my colony and proceeded to lose my whole colony. Then, not too long ago, I purchased a very expensive gecko from another big breeder and he came to me thinner too. Was I concerned?? yes! The vet could find nothing wrong with him for weeks (he wouldn't eat much and pooed less)and he came to death's door when the vet discovered he had a severe yeast infection. He'd said he'd never seen it so bad in a Leo before. I asked him how this could have came about. he said the Leo had over exposure to antibiotics. I was stunned. The breeder never told me he had to give the Leo antibiotics. When I first emailed him my concern, he said he NEVER ever had a sick animal, so it was not sick when it left him. When I re-emailed him explaining what the vet said, he never wrote back to me. He was probably just too busy.
Now, to slice my own throat, which I am doing willingly over just an observation. I know from experience you cannot say anthing remotely negative about a big name breeder w/o getting bitten severely. So, here goes: No, I do not think Alberto would sell sick animals on purpose - no one would do that if they wanted to keep their name. But, I have seen some thin Leos posted on his site, mainly albinos. Now, to give the benefit of the doubt, maybe they had just laid eggs or been used for breeding, maybe that is why some were way too thin. Could be. And yes, I would buy from Alberto and indeed plan to...but only one of the fattest ones. I've become parinoid of thin tailed adults.
So, please tell me how much damage I have done to my person by stating my observation above? Let the recriminations roll.. )
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Photos

...... apparantly non eating, mal nourished animals.... i cant take this thread or any other of your threads with much validity.
you should be ashamed of yourself for letting him have those animals.. it definately says something about your character and business ethics and you count on one thing i will not buy nor sell anything to you ever and i know ALOT of people who feel the same way.... i wouldnt want my babies to be exposed to anything damaging.
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

That is very strange..they were not sick and dying when they left my house. I would never have given him sick or dying geckos. But, I was wrong in offering him babies, it was just all I had at the time worth him putting a couple of pics up on my site. I gave him three babies (that were feeding) to put 4 pics up on my site. Which only 1 was ever accomplished (and even that no longer esists right now). I can not see giving him my older, much more expensive leos for that. Putting 4 pics up was not worth $100 or more to me, so I offered what I had for less. I explained about paper toweling, separating them, heat pads, and everything else he needed to know to properly set them up. I even told him that they are supplied with mealies, but I've only ever seen them eat 1/2" crickets.
2 were about 3-4 weeks, 1 was about 6-8 weeks. He did not come to me with any problems he was having with them. I did not know about his troubles until I just visited this site. I am willing to stand by him and the babies. I even offered to take them back and nurse them until they are older and less fragile and then get them back to him. He chooses to continue, I applaud him for that, but will still be here if he needs anything.
Why in the world are you so quick with your mean tongue w/o knowing all the facts??
I am at a loss for this attack, although I did expect something, it was not this.
I have so many happy and so many repeat customers and no returns to date. I do not believe I am the pariah you say I am.
yes, I've had a couple of emergency sales of animals I did not have long. I have two daughters, one autistic and one asthmatic and no medical insurance. If something happens to them, I sell what I have invested less in to cover what medical bills I have to. My children mean more to me than my animals. I do not think this makes me a monster, but to some I suppose it would.
If I have done more than this, please email me and let me know why I am a monster, and I will try to make amends to those people I have so greviously wronged. I cannot right wrongs if I am unaware of them. Or just post it here for all to see if you are out for more blood.
I have always dealt fairly with my customers and will continue to do so. I am still in contact with customers who bought from me years ago, it is just something I do.
I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but we are all entitled to our own opinions, thanks to this beautiful country we live in.
Have a great night.
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Photos

Here are the babies before they left my house:

Apparently I was pawning off these near dead babies on a greenhorn, hoping to set him up for failure. If I can discourage just one new person from getting into the business, then I will have accomplished what I set out to do. Apparently I did not care if my name went down the toilet because most of us baaad people just change are names and sell again.

I'm sorry - I can't keep it up...my husband is laughing his head off and it is spoiling it for me. I was trying to be baaad...but, I guess I should not because some people tend to believe everything they read (this is a general statement only -I run into people like this every day at my job)By the way, I have been Starlight for years and will continue to be so.

The oldest about 6-8 weeks:

The youngest about 3 weeks:

The middle one about 4 weeks:

Please forgive my attempt at crude humor above...I'm going on nearly 24 hours w/o sleep....Do not mean to offend anyone by it.

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Photos

didn't know just how my words would be taken. I meant it to be funny.
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Photos

I agree with Rick.
I remember when you had a sick male awile back, and then you showed a few pics of your new baby near him. He or one of your others may have had crypto and it is very easy to spred even if you have quarintined. Basicly you have to heavally steralize any cages they were in but the best thing to do is throw them out IMO. And quarintine in another room. Also even not washing hand between handling feeding could transfer it.
So if you used the same tanks that your original sick gecko was in could have spread very fast.
You should get neoscropys(sp?) on the ones that died to see if that is what you are dealing with, so you can take appropriate maesures for the rest.
Sorry you have to deal with this, but you should take the others to the vet and see if they can find out what is wrong with them.
You never know it could turn out to be something treatable.
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Sara

Sorry to hear about the deaths and illness in your leo collection.

It sounds like the bug that killed your other leos is spreading through your colony, even to previously uninfected animals. That seems much more likely to me than to assume different things are hitting your leos, I especially doubt Alberto sold you a sick leo. This sort of "epidemic"going through a collection can happen though husbandry, for example something as simple as not washing hands between handling geckos or feeding, or something more well known to be a no-no, like musical food. Another thing that can cause multiple leos in a colony, even housed seperate, to get sick is food-born illness, usually from crickets. This can range from worms to bacterial infections and mold toxin poisoning. This is one reason I think many breeders end up switching to mealworms, they're cleaner that way. In the case of crypto (which is a known problem in chainstore leos), it is suspected that it can even become airborne, as it always tends to wipe out anything kept in the same room, even if housed seperately. Whether this is true or these cases actually trace to husbandry issues I don't know, I do know that it tends to wip out all the herps in the room, even in people who think they are being careful with husbandry. I highly suggest you get a necropsy on the next animal that dies as that is the best way to diagnose crypto.
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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

I assume you got a fecal- did it not turn anything up?
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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

all the sick leos were housed in a seperate room the second i saw something abnormal..i always wash my hands befor and after i handle any of my herps, i only keep my normal female on crickets all the others are on mealworms..i dont transfer uneaten food into another leos tank i throw the uneaten food out, as for me having that baby next to that other leo..the baby was fine never got sick until he went in with my juvi tang who turned up sick 3 months later and the baby got it from there the blizz along with all the ones who have died were store bought and i regret ever buying them, we havnt took the albino to a vet yet since i saw the watery poop this morning i have to find out how much a fecal is and how much they charge just to see a vet, i've talked to alberto..i dont think he'd sell anyone a sick gecko either
he told me that if it was a worm use panacur..already knew that
then he said if it was coccidia they vet would give me..i think he haid "albron?"..since this morning and after seeing the watery poop he has eaten 3 crickets (i know i said i only use crickets with my normal but i wanted to see if he would even notice them) and he did..i just hope if he is sick its nothing worse than a worm..he is one of my favorites...my day has been horrible just thinking and worry about this..as for that necropsy how much would that even cost?

I thought you would have already gotten a fecal with the deaths. Well that should be your #1 priority then. You need to find out what the problem is and treat your leos or of course they will die, even if it is treatable or curable. If it's crypto there's no point in treating, it's best to just euthanize any animals that contract it, to spare them the suffering, as it is not treatable.

You only need to do a necropsy if you get fecals that don't turn up anything and the symptoms suggest crypto
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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

I don't know if it was on here or somewhere else that I read the only way to kill crypto is with ammonia...which means that washing hands with regular or antibacterial soap, and cleaning cages with bleach won't kill it...which would make it very easy to kill all the animals in a room or even in a whole house. I don't know if that's true...but its what I heard.
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

::shakes head::

I'm sorry...but it just shows that its really not your fault that they are getting sick if it really does take ammonia to kill crypto, if that's what it is
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

Yes, if it's crypto from the stories I've heard it always tends to wipe out a whole collection and one should not blame self BUT the best thing to do now instead of jumping to conclusions is to get a FECAL (this really should have been done already), this could be something curable and it sounds like this is killing your animals pretty quickly so time is of the essence. Good luck.
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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos