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ATTN SF BAY AREA REPTILE & FISH &AMPHIBIAN OWNERS-CHLORAMINE IN WATER!

StarGecko Feb 02, 2004 08:24 PM

So I just heard today on the news that the new water in the SF Bay Area, starting today, is being treated with chloramine, which is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia. This is not safe for aquatic reptiles, amphibians and fish, and boiling the water does not help. The water must be treated with a special conditioner to remove the ammonia.

More info here:

sfwater.org/detail.cfm/C_ID/1293/MC_ID/7/MSC_ID/67/MTO_ID/97

Now this says that it is not okay for gills, but this is okay for people and animals to drink because it is neutralized by digestive system (can anyone confirm this is true?), but I am unsure if it is safe to use for humid hide.

Also, how do you know if there is chloramine in bottled water or not?

Would appreciate hearing from anyone experiuenced with having this in their water and how they handle it/any pertinent info. Thanks.
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

Replies (12)

TLB Feb 02, 2004 08:41 PM

Hi

I live in Michigan and we have had chlorine in our water ever since I can remember. For fish, just add some conditioner to the water when putting in new water, and as far as people and animal/reptiles go, they have been drinking water directly from the tap forever with no ill effects.

Take Care, TLB

StarGecko Feb 02, 2004 08:51 PM

We used to have Chlorine, we switched to chlaramine today. Chlorine is just chlorine, Chloramine is chlorine ammonia
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

TLB Feb 02, 2004 09:09 PM

Hi

I went and read the following info. of another web site.

"Chloramine - is only dangerous for fish, reptiles, shellfish and amphibians that take water directly into their bloodstream".

It didn't say were, but it did say there are devises out there that can help cut back on some of it's strength.

Take Care, TLB

RedQuake Feb 02, 2004 09:56 PM

Why would they put something so dangerous into the water? I realize theres worse stuff but man........one of these days its going to be the water that kills everyone. Better just to boil everything that comes from the tap!

Red

>>We used to have Chlorine, we switched to chlaramine today. Chlorine is just chlorine, Chloramine is chlorine ammonia
>>-----
>>Sarah Stettler aka Starling
>>Sarah@stargecko.com
>>StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
>>Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos
-----
Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

StarGecko Feb 02, 2004 09:58 PM

It is more effective at killing bacteria and viruses that plain chlorine, and is not supposed to be harmful when ingested...
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

RedQuake Feb 02, 2004 10:03 PM

is that they NEVER do long term affects studies before doing stuff like this. How do we know that that new stuff isn't goign to have long term effects on humans and animals alike? Has there been studies showing that ingesting small amounts for 20 years isn't going to cause disease or sterility? Call me a pesimist but i'm very untrusting of people when it comes to stuff like that.

Red,
P.S. those questions weren't directed at anyone, just things i am wondering

>>It is more effective at killing bacteria and viruses that plain chlorine, and is not supposed to be harmful when ingested...
>>-----
>>Sarah Stettler aka Starling
>>Sarah@stargecko.com
>>StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
>>Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos
-----
Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

goldengategeckos Feb 02, 2004 10:02 PM

Until recently, most water treatment facilities used chlorine until the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency stepped in. When chlorine is added to a water supply containing certain organics, the formation of halogenated organics occurs which are called "trihalogenated methanes" (THM's.) These products are suspected carcinogens and maximum allowable limits in municipal supplies are imposed by the EPA, so to reduce the potential for the formation of THM's, many U.S. municipal supplies are converting their chlorine disinfection method to chloramine. Chloramines have a low potential to form THM's.

Like chlorine, chloramine is used as an oxidant to kill bacteria and other harmful organisms (like coccidia) in our water supplies by penetrating their cell walls and disrupting their metabolism. Small doses of chlorine are safe to drink, but one problem water treatment plants have with chlorine is that it's unstable, and easily dissipated from the water. This means that the treatment plants need to put in higher levels of chlorine, so that they can be sure that some will remain in the water when it reaches our faucets.

Recently, many city's water systems have started treating tap water with chloramine instead of chlorine. Chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia, and is much more stable than chlorine. It won't dissipate from the water as easily, and it isn't as likely to combine with other chemicals. But, chloramine isn't as good at killing off the microorganisms in the water as chlorine, so higher levels of chloramine are often used. Typically, water treatment plants use about 1 ppm of chloramine.

The biggest problem with chloramine is the long-term effect it has on substances like rubber, carbon and charcoal filters, and other substances that are used in applications such as fish tanks and reverse-osmosis (RO) treatments. There are many ways this can be corrected, but IMO it is going to be a BIG expense, and of course the taxpayers will be flipping the bill. It's reminiscent of when the automotive industry discovered that there were serious environmental issues surrounding the use of freon in radiators and the coolant in anti-freeze, so they converted all of the equipment so it could be used with "safe" replacements of those chemicals. ( A real nightmare...)

Anyway, at this point I really don't see this as a problem for any of us or our pets when it comes to the consumption of this "new" water. It will have some impact on aquarium and fish keepers, but I am positive that they will have some new substances to treat the water that contains choramine, just as they do for water that is chorinated. If necessary, we can always use bottled water like Calistoga for our reptiles.
-----
Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

RedQuake Feb 02, 2004 10:13 PM

Thats some really good information. Thanks for sharing

Red
-----
Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

meretseger Feb 03, 2004 02:04 AM

Almost all aquarium dechlorinators claim to work on both. I don't know which one I have, so I've always used bottled dechlorinator. (I can go through 50 gallons a week, so buying water or letting it sit out isn't much of an option for me)
-----
"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

StarGecko Feb 03, 2004 01:58 PM

if the PUR water filters remove that? I have one of those on my kitchen faucet (though it souns like I'll be going through filters a lot quicker from what you said). I hear Reptisafe is supposed to get rid of it too. Though it sounds like the powers that be are saying it is not neccessary to remove from drinking water for reptiles or people. Maybe it is nothing to worry about?
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

GoldenGateGeckos Feb 03, 2004 03:12 PM

Sarah, I haven't got a clue if they do or not, but I'm sure with all of the cities water being switched they have had lots of inquiries! Here is their email and phone number:
1-800-787-5463 (1-800-PUR-LINE)
email: info@purwaterfilters.com
-----
Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

StarGecko Feb 04, 2004 07:38 PM

Thank you. I have emailed them and asked a bunch of questions. I will post what I find out. Thanks so much
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

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