Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have always read about the great intelligence of north american wood turtles. Do all would turtles have the same intelligence?

Yes, most Wood Turtles do seem to be very intellegent. . .
Chris
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Hey whats up, I'm Chris and I currently have 1.0 Softy, 0.1 Ambo, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

First, although many would disagree with me, I still believe the supposedly superior intelligence and personality of Wood Turtles (Clemmys inculpta) is widely overrated. Even within this species, the males are more aggressive and outgoing than most females. Secondly, if by "all" Wood Turtles you are including the Tropical "Wood Turtles" of the genus Rhinoclemmys and the large "Asian Wood Turtle", Heosemys grandis, you have a very mixed bag. Having kept a very large number of species and subspeicies over the years, I find that there are quite a number of turtles that appear to be the equal of the American Wood Turtle in intelligence and definitely in personality. For example, the large Black Wood Turtle, Rhinoclemmys funerea even resembles Clemmys insculpta somewhat in appearance (although not closely related) and is every bit as personable. Plain old Red-eared Sliders make very attentive pets, as do many African Mud Turtles. The very worst "species" was a rare helmet-shaped variant of the Asian Box Turtle, Cuora galbinifrons. I had three of them and none would ever even extend their heads in my presence, although they appeared otherwise healthy. On the other hand, I have a very outgoing and personable male of the more common oval-shaped variant.

I agree, people do seem to over rate them. When I stated that they were intellegent, I meant for a turtle. You can not compare them to say... a dog.
Chris
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Hey whats up, I'm Chris and I currently have 1.0 Softy, 0.1 Ambo, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

Erico shyness and intelligence are different beasts altogether.
While its well known that many galbies are shy where as insculpta would chase you down and lick you at the door if it though you mIGHT have a tiny piece of food i don't think it means one is "smarter" than the other.

I think woodies are bright and they certainly can learn some things. But i agree the do have some equals. I think most of the Rhinoclemmys seem just as bright to me and funera and (after a time) manni are both outgoing. I think sulcatas are pretty smart despite what bad things you might say about them. And i've been impressed by diamondback terrapins and gopher tortoises and galaps and even european pond turtles which seem to intuit by your gestures whether you will feed them or not (maybe they can just smell that you have been working with food, but i get a different response if they don't see food after a few seconds that other turtles like sliders and wood turtles don't display; they just keep chasing after you). : )

I think softshells and maps seem a little on the "dull/dense" list but it may be simply that they don't get comfortable enough to display their smarts.

Apparently wood turtles have been able to figure out mazes as quickly as rats, which are pretty darned smart in the animal world. Because there HAS been scientific experimentation, it is safe to say that Clemmys insculpta is the smartest reptile.
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

That experiment WAS mentioned by Archie Carr in his Handbook of Turtles over half a century ago, but even he was VERY skeptical of the results (said they must have been very stupid rats). As a fellow zoologist (and former rat owner and admirer as well as a herper) it is inconceivable that ANY reptile would have the brainpower of a rat, although turtles in general seem to be at the top of the reptilian heap.

Thanks for clearing that up, I won't promote that statement in the future!
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Have you looked into the studies which have been conducted involving Varanid sp.? If not, you may want to do a bit of investigation and research, prior to making such a claim.

Jeff snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.526.4856

Thirty or so years ago I had some in a large outdoors pen (before catching them was outlawed). The fencing was chickenwire buried six inches deep, and curving over inwards at the top. On many occasions I passed by and saw a couple of woodturtles halfway up the chickenwire, moving horizontally along it, apparently looking for gaps.

That counts for smarts, I'd say.

FuManchu