Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,
I have a BRB who is going on 8 months old. She was purchased from a breeder at the Sacramento Herp Expo. For a while now, I have thought that I had a problem with her regurgitating (which stirs up all kinds of fears such as the possibility of IBD). Though now I'm beginning to think that the partially digested mice I am seeing are actually her droppings, since lately they have been found next to urates, and often in the water dish.

All my other snakes go brown or black poop, that does not in any way look like an animal anymore! Her droppings (if that is what they are) still resemble a pink-colored "fuzzy" sized mouse. And are sometimes complete with mouse "parts" such as feet or a head. :-P

Is this a normal trait for rainbows?
Does it sound like it's definatly regurgitation (even though it has been connected to what looks to be urates), or could it be that she is not properly digesting her food before it passes?
If that is the case, what would cause it, and what can I do?

Just a bit of info on her..
Her humidity levels are kept very high. Temps are in the right range with a proper gradient. She eats one fuzzy mouse a week, and has since I got her. However, when she started passing what looked to be partially digested mice (this all started about 2 months after I bought her) I cut her back to pinkies twice a week in hopes that she'd stop regurgitating. It never occured to me at that point that the mice may actually not be vomit, but may actually be her poop.

In other respects, she seems healthy. She sheds normally and eats well. And makes her way around her cage. I am a bit worried about her growth rate; how large should an 8 month old be, roughly? She has grown, but nothing drastic. I mean, she hasn't needed to change prey sizes (there's no way she could take down an adult mouse anytime soon).

When I bought her, I had the hope of her being bred someday. I hope that can still be accomplished. But most of all, I just want my little Nyoka to be Okay.

If anyone can offer some advice, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you.

Your BRB is regurgitating. You'll need to supply some more information. What is it temp range exactly? A little BRB in a small container should be kept between 72 and 80 degrees. What size and type container are you housing it in? How are you heating it? An 8 month old BRB can easily eat a rat fuzzy or an small adult mouse and should be shedding every 4 to 5 weeks or so. I live in Sacramento and I believe that expo occured in September? In that time your snake should have grown considerably. I'm guessing its either stressed out or the temps are not right.
Let us know what the details are so we can help.
Paul
Hi,
I have a BRB who is going on 8 months old. She was purchased from a breeder at the Sacramento Herp Expo. For a while now, I have thought that I had a problem with her regurgitating (which stirs up all kinds of fears such as the possibility of IBD). Though now I'm beginning to think that the partially digested mice I am seeing are actually her droppings, since lately they have been found next to urates, and often in the water dish.

All my other snakes go brown or black poop, that does not in any way look like an animal anymore! Her droppings (if that is what they are) still resemble a pink-colored "fuzzy" sized mouse. And are sometimes complete with mouse "parts" such as feet or a head. :-P

Is this a normal trait for rainbows?
Does it sound like it's definatly regurgitation (even though it has been connected to what looks to be urates), or could it be that she is not properly digesting her food before it passes?
If that is the case, what would cause it, and what can I do?

Just a bit of info on her..
Her humidity levels are kept very high. Temps are in the right range with a proper gradient. She eats one fuzzy mouse a week, and has since I got her. However, when she started passing what looked to be partially digested mice (this all started about 2 months after I bought her) I cut her back to pinkies twice a week in hopes that she'd stop regurgitating. It never occured to me at that point that the mice may actually not be vomit, but may actually be her poop.

In other respects, she seems healthy. She sheds normally and eats well. And makes her way around her cage. I am a bit worried about her growth rate; how large should an 8 month old be, roughly? She has grown, but nothing drastic. I mean, she hasn't needed to change prey sizes (there's no way she could take down an adult mouse anytime soon).

When I bought her, I had the hope of her being bred someday. I hope that can still be accomplished. But most of all, I just want my little Nyoka to be Okay.

Hi Paul,
Thanks for responding so fast.
She is housed in a 20 gallon tank with a lid that is half mesh/half glass. I have the mesh part covered 99% of the way to keep moisture in. The tank is heated with a small undertank mat suitable for a tank that size. It keeps the warmest side of the cage at about 82 degrees. The opposite side ranges from 70-74. She spends time in all parts of her cage and does not seem to favor one spot.

She has a bubbling bowl which entices her to drink (and she loves it), and a TropicAire mister which keeps the tank at a nice 80-95% humidity range. I use puppy pee-pads for substrate because they are easy to change and retain the humidity without becoming overly soggy. I clean her cage twice a week, or more if necessary.

When I bought her (Aug. 2, 2003 -- she was 7 weeks at the time), I was told she was eating mouse fuzzies. Which I kept her on until she started regurgitating. Then, as suggested, I reduced the size of her meals down to pinks. I have since raised the size of the prey back up to fuzzies since she's gotten bigger. She always accepts food, but regurgitates(if that's what it is) about every other meal or so. Which I guess would explain why she has not grown much. (Looking back on my notes, her first regurgitation was on 8/13/03 - actually much earlier than I had remembered) She's roughly as big around (width-wise) as a nickel. I'm not sure how big a rat fuzzy is (been a long time since I've bred them) so I don't know if she'd be able to take one down. None of the shops around here sell frozen rat babies.

I did have some problems with her temps and humidity levels when I first brought her home. But the humidity problem was fixed right away. After the regurgitation going on for a few weeks, I put her in a different room (my "animal" room isn't uite as warm as the rest of the house). I thought the cold nights in that room may have been causing the problem, and that moving her might make a difference, but it hasn't.

I really don't think that stress is an issue. She has numerous hiding places and many, many, many fake plants (there's not too much free 'floor space' in the cage). I realized that by putting her into that size tank, stress could be an issue. But, she has never shown fear, lack of appetite, etc.. She is not a nippy snake, and is very comfortable being handled.

I never handle her before or after a meal, and honestly I don't handle her much at all anymore because I figure she is better off when left on her own.

I'm really worried now that she may have a more serious problem than what I originally thought, and what I was originally told. And I am very concerned that this could spread to my other snakes.

Are you sure that what I'm describing is indeed regurgitation, even though it seems to have urates with it? How would what looks to be urates be vomited up?

Thanks again so much.. I appreciate it.

Scalesandfeathers,
. My guess is that the problem is caused by parasites. The next time it pukes or passes something strange looking take the sample to the vet to have it checked for parasites.
Jeff

>>Hi Paul,
>>Thanks for responding so fast.
>>She is housed in a 20 gallon tank with a lid that is half mesh/half glass. I have the mesh part covered 99% of the way to keep moisture in. The tank is heated with a small undertank mat suitable for a tank that size. It keeps the warmest side of the cage at about 82 degrees. The opposite side ranges from 70-74. She spends time in all parts of her cage and does not seem to favor one spot.
>>
>>She has a bubbling bowl which entices her to drink (and she loves it), and a TropicAire mister which keeps the tank at a nice 80-95% humidity range. I use puppy pee-pads for substrate because they are easy to change and retain the humidity without becoming overly soggy. I clean her cage twice a week, or more if necessary.
>>
>>When I bought her (Aug. 2, 2003 -- she was 7 weeks at the time), I was told she was eating mouse fuzzies. Which I kept her on until she started regurgitating. Then, as suggested, I reduced the size of her meals down to pinks. I have since raised the size of the prey back up to fuzzies since she's gotten bigger. She always accepts food, but regurgitates(if that's what it is) about every other meal or so. Which I guess would explain why she has not grown much. (Looking back on my notes, her first regurgitation was on 8/13/03 - actually much earlier than I had remembered) She's roughly as big around (width-wise) as a nickel. I'm not sure how big a rat fuzzy is (been a long time since I've bred them) so I don't know if she'd be able to take one down. None of the shops around here sell frozen rat babies.
>>
>>I did have some problems with her temps and humidity levels when I first brought her home. But the humidity problem was fixed right away. After the regurgitation going on for a few weeks, I put her in a different room (my "animal" room isn't uite as warm as the rest of the house). I thought the cold nights in that room may have been causing the problem, and that moving her might make a difference, but it hasn't.
>>
>>I really don't think that stress is an issue. She has numerous hiding places and many, many, many fake plants (there's not too much free 'floor space' in the cage). I realized that by putting her into that size tank, stress could be an issue. But, she has never shown fear, lack of appetite, etc.. She is not a nippy snake, and is very comfortable being handled.
>>
>>I never handle her before or after a meal, and honestly I don't handle her much at all anymore because I figure she is better off when left on her own.
>>
>>I'm really worried now that she may have a more serious problem than what I originally thought, and what I was originally told. And I am very concerned that this could spread to my other snakes.
>>
>>Are you sure that what I'm describing is indeed regurgitation, even though it seems to have urates with it? How would what looks to be urates be vomited up?
>>
>>Thanks again so much.. I appreciate it.

Check out this website for finding a vet in your area if you don't already have one:www.herpvetconnection.com.
It does sound like your little guy's got a bug. Your setup sounds really dialed in.
Good luck and post what you learn.
Paul

>>Check out this website for finding a vet in your area if you don't already have one:www.herpvetconnection.com.
>>It does sound like your little guy's got a bug. Your setup sounds really dialed in.
>>Good luck and post what you learn.
>>Paul

Im not a rainbow pro, but if the hotspot is only 82 degrees, the snake wont be able to digest hence the regurge.

I believe that is in the right temperature range. If the experts disagree, please let me know.

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Herps~
1.0 Ball Python (Squeeze)
1.0 Amel Corn (Ashbury)
1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milk (Diablito)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Nyoka)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Spike)
0.0.1 Treefrog (Keropi)
0.0.3 African Dwarf frogs
0.1 Red Eared Slider (Shelly)

Dogs~
1.0 6 y/o GSD/Mastiff/Shar-pei (Max)
0.1 7 y/o Pit bull/lab (Missy)
0.1 2 y/o Chow/ACD (Sierra)
1.0 6 y/o terrier x ??? (Tripper)

Cats~
1.0 6 y/o black DSH (Salem)
1.0 3 y/o Tuxedo DSH (Felix)
1.0 8 y/o Orange DLH (Benji)
0.1 10 y/o black tabby DSH (Peppermint)
0.1 3 y/o Calico DSH (Abby)
0.1 2 y/o W&B DSH (Bob)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Figaro)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Jasmine)
0.1 2 y/o Calico DSH (Raja)

Birds~
1.0 Alexandrine (Alex)
1.0 Yellow Collared Mini Macaw (Baby)
1.0 Indian Ringneck (Rosie)
1.0 Sun Conure (Tango)
1.0 Red Lored Amazon (Rocky)
0.3 Peachfaced Lovebirds; Lutino (Tweety), Dutch blue (Delilah), and Pied (Iago)

Rodents~
0.1 Syrian Hamster (Amelia)
0.2 Dumbo rats (Elizabeth & Cheddar)
0.1 Het Beige Chinchilla (Zion)
1.0 3-legged Black TOV Chin (Smokey)

Rabbits~
1.0 Tri colored Mini Rex (Buster)
0.1 chinchilla French Lop (Martha)

Fish~
29 Gallon tank with Neon tetras, a betta, a guppy, 3 frogs, 3 sand loaches, 2 platies, 1 dwarf gourami, and a cory cat.
Plus 3 5-gallon tanks with one betta each.

I would agree that brbs like it cooler. My female is almost never under her basking site, she prefers the cooler side, which is around 75F. This is even on a full stomach. I've never had her regurge and her appetite is phenomenal. Come to think about it, i have never seen her actually bask...when i put her back in her cage, i usually put her on the warm side, and she'll stay there for a bit, but later she's back on the cool side, where she'll stay unless i happen to place her back on the warm side when i clean her cage or whatever. Oh, and by the way, my basking site is 85F, and she never uses it.

My basking site is 80F and i see them use it regulary, at night and in the mornings, the go sleep and p00p in the waterbowl under the lamp or crawl under the towel and during day they sleep up in a branch in the middle of my tank or go hide on the cool side