Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This was on another list. I'm trying to find a link for it.

Katrina

NYS legislation A2684/S905

E. "WILD ANIMAL" SHALL MEAN ANY LIVE ANIMAL THAT IS WILD BY NATURE, WHETHER BRED IN THE WILD OR IN CAPTIVITY AND WHETHER OR NOT NATIVE TO NEW YORK STATE. WILD ANIMALS SHALL NOT INCLUDE "COMPANION ANIMALS" AS DEFINED IN SUBDIVISION THIRTY-FOUR OF THIS SECTION. WILD ANIMALS INCLUDE, AND ARE LIMITED TO, ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ORDERS AND FAMILIES, AND SUCH OTHERS AS THE DEPARTMENT DETERMINES ARE DANGEROUS TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY. THE ANIMALS LISTED IN PARENTHESES ARE INTENDED TO SERVE AS EXAMPLES AND ARE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS AN EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF EACH GROUP, UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED:
(1) NONHUMAN PRIMATES AND PROSIMIANS,
(2) FELIDAE (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOMESTICATED AND FERAL CATS, WHICH SHALL MEAN DOMESTICATED CATS THAT WERE FORMERLY OWNED AND THAT HAVE BEEN ABANDONED AND THAT ARE NO LONGER SOCIALIZED, AS WELL AS OFFSPRING OF SUCH CATS), AND HYBRIDS THEREOF,
(3) CANIDAE (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOMESTICATED DOGS),
(4) URSIDAE,
(5) REPTILIA (ALL REPTILES THAT ARE VENOMOUS BY NATURE, PURSUANT TO DEPARTMENT REGULATION, AND THE FOLLOWING SPECIES: BURMESE PYTHON (PYTHON M. BIVITTATUS), RETICULATED PYTHON (PYTHON RETICULATUS), AFRICAN ROCK PYTHON (PYTHON SABAE), GREEN ANACONDA (EUNECTES MAURINUS), YELLOW ANACONDA (EUNECTES NOTAEUS) AND INDIAN PYTHON (PYTHON MOLURUS), ASIATIC (WATER) MONITOR (V. SALVATOR), NILE MONITOR (V. NILOCITUS), WHITE THROAT MONITOR (V. ALBIGULARUS), BLACK THROAT MONITOR (V. ALBIGULARUS IONIDES) AND CROCODILE MONITOR (V. SALVADORI)) AND ANY HYBRID THEREOF, CROCODILIA.

32. "FARM ANIMAL" MEANS ANY UNGULATE, POULTRY, SPECIES OF CATTLE, SHEEP, SWINE, GOATS, LLAMA, HORSES OR FUR-BEARING ANIMALS AS DEFINED IN SECTION 11-1907 OF THIS ARTICLE, WHICH ARE RAISED FOR COMMERCIAL OR SUBSISTENCE PURPOSES. FUR-BEARING ANIMALS SHALL NOT INCLUDE DOGS OR CATS.
33. "PET" MEANS AN ANIMAL KEPT FOR THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF COMPANION-SHIP THAT IS NORMALLY MAINTAINED IN OR NEAR THE HOUSEHOLD OF THE OWNER OR PERSON WHO CARES FOR SUCH DOMESTICATED ANIMAL.
34. "COMPANION ANIMAL" MEANS ANY ANIMAL THAT IS COMMONLY KEPT AS A PET AS DEFINED IN THIS SECTION. THE DEFINITION SHALL INCLUDE BUT NOT BE LIMITED TO: A. DOMESTICATED DOGS;
B. DOMESTICATED CATS AND FERAL CATS AS DEFINED IN THIS SECTION; C.HORSES; D.HAMSTERS; E.GERBILS; F. GUINEA PIGS; G. DOMESTICATED BIRDS; (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, MOST SPECIES OF PSITTACINES: BUDGERIGARS, COCKATIELS, PARROTS, AND MANY SPECIES OF RHAM- PHASTIDAE: TOCANS, AND MANY SPECIES OF FINCHES, SOFTBILLS, ETC.)
H.RABBITS;
I. TURTLES (EXCEPT THOSE DETERMINED BY THE DEPARTMENT TO BE A DANGER TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY);
J. MICE; K. RATS; L. FERRETS;

A. 2684--B
M. HEDGEHOGS; N.CHINCHILLAS; O. FENNEC FOXES (VULPES ZERDA);
P. IGUANAS (SUBJECT TO LICENSE REQUIREMENTS PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIX OF SECTION 11-0512 OF THIS ARTICLE);
Q. SUGAR GLIDERS (PETAURUS BREVICEPS);

{No} SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 11-0512 OF THIS ARTICLE, NO person shall, except under a license or permit first obtained from the

A. 2684--B 4
1 department containing the prominent warning notice specified in subdivision nine of section 11-0917 of this article, possess, transport or cause to be transported, imported or exported any live wolf, wolfdog, coyote, coydog, fox, skunk, venomous reptile or raccoon, endangered species designated pursuant to section 11-0535 hereof, species named in
section 11-0536 or other species of native or non-native live wildlife or fish where the department finds that possession, transportation, importation or exportation of such species of wildlife or fish would present a danger to the health or welfare of the people of the state, an individual resident or indigenous fish or wildlife population. Environmental conservation officers, forest rangers and members of the state police may seize every such animal possessed without such license or permit. No action for damages shall lie for such seizure, and disposition of seized animals shall be at the discretion of the department.
S 7. The environmental conservation law is amended by adding a new section 11-0512 to read as follows:

S 11-0512. POSSESSION, SALE, BARTER, TRANSFER, EXCHANGE AND IMPORT OF WILD ANIMALS AS PETS PROHIBITED.
1. NO PERSON SHALL KNOWINGLY POSSESS, HARBOR, SELL, BARTER, TRANSFER, EXCHANGE OR IMPORT ANY WILD ANIMAL FOR USE AS A PET IN NEW YORK STATE, EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN SUBDIVISION THREE OF THIS SECTION.
2. THIS SECTION SHALL NOT PROHIBIT THE POSSESSION OF GREEN IGUANAS AS PETS (IGUANA IGUANA) BY PERSONS WHO OBTAIN A LICENSE FOR SUCH POSSESSION. SUCH LICENSE SHALL BE REQUIRED PRIOR TO PURCHASE AND SHALL BE SIGNED BY THE PERSON FROM WHOM THE IGUANA IS OBTAINED. THE FEE FOR THE LICENSE SHALL BE A ONE-TIME FEE OF TEN DOLLARS. THE LICENSE SHALL PERMIT THE LICENSEE TO OWN AN IGUANA BUT NOT TO TIE, TETHER OR CHAIN IT OUTDOORS, ALLOW IT TO RUN AT LARGE OR BRING IT TO ANY PUBLIC PARK OR COMMERCIAL OR RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT UNLESS IT S BEING BROUGHT TO A VETERINARIAN OR VETERINARY CLINIC. THE DEPARTMENT SHALL PRESCRIBE AND FURNISH
FORMS FOR APPLICATION FOR SUCH LICENSE. THE DEPARTMENT MAY AUTHORIZE SELLERS OF GREEN IGUANAS TO ISSUE SUCH LICENSES.
7 R. FISH, CORAL, AND ALL AQUATIC INVERTEBRATES.

More information about this bill including a link to the text of the bill can be found at www.wnyherp.org/legal-action/New-York-animal-ban.html

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A.J. Sokolik
asokolik@wnyherp.org
Western New York Herpetological Society

I think NY legislators need to hear from responsible monitor and python owners - what steps you take to protect your family and the public from your snakes, how secure your caging is, ect.

Someone commneted that White Throat monitors were actually rather tame - might want NY to know about that! At the very least, we need to convince them to grandfather the animals that are in possession NOW, and possibly to get a permit system for the proposed banned animals, such as they are proposing for iguanas.

Katrina

This bill was first introduced in 2001. There is a permit system(Interim) in place for venomous snakes. While one could be put in place for pythons or monitors, what good would it do???

It's like beatin' a dead horse, especially since most, if not all incidents concerning exotics have taken place in NYC, e.g, the fellow in Harlem with the illegal tiger & alligator. Most people keeping them illegally are NOT gonna bother with a permit anyway...even when NYC has had regs banning these species for years. The indicent in Poughkeepsie with the loose monitor last year----THAT animal did NOT need to be shot! The police NEVER attempted to contact any herp societies OR someone who knows who to catch a monitor.....AND NO, you need not be a keeper at the bronx zoo to be qualified to handle a monitor, or crocodile for that matter. It's not rocket science!

THe problems i have with this bill are:

a) those of us with permits are responsible keepers already, DON't lump up with the derelicts who keep them illegally, which is the tone this bill takes.

b) There have not been any indicents to begin with where ANY member or the public has been injured by an escaped exotic or venomous snake, therefore, NO DATA exists to warrant this legislation. It's NOT BROKEN, so DON't TRY TO FIX IT!

c) DEC does not have enough personnel to enforce this legislation. If you want to come up with a realistic effective system, LET the private keepers who currently have permits POLICE themselves! We can come up with a group of responsible keepers to draft guidelines for reptile keepers. We'll offer handling courses, insurance requirements, Anti-venom banks, etc.

D) We already were supposed to notify Town Clerks about dangerous animals by April 2003.....many of us have done that.

E) The requirement of sterilization so the animals will not be bred.....NOT Gonna happen. Especially when I get calls from Zoos looking for some of the rarer species?

F) This legislation is being spurned by the so called "Animal Rights" groups(PETA, HSUS) who simply want their agendas pushed and have a hand in the back pockets of State legislators supporting the bills. These groups are mostly nit-wits that will send their dogs to "Doggie Spas" and cart them every where they go. They have little appreciation for animals that serve an actual ecological role in nature.

Contrary to popular belief, snakes DO actually thrive in small cages...they actually prefer to be hidden from view in a tiny hide box. Obviously, people should not be keeping Bengal Tigers in a NYC apartment or even in a cramped cage in the backyard, BUT those of us who spend hours each night tending to the well-being of our collections, HAVE absolutely no reason to want this legislation in place. Not that it isn't unreasonable to have a permit system in place(We already do) BUT banning the keeping and breeding of these animals is NOT ACCEPTABLE! Nor will we tolerate it!

My $0.02.

Matt

What do I have to do in order to get a permit to own and breed ball pythons in NYC. I know that they put a ban on all pythons in NYC but I cant find out how to get the right permits.

Thanks
Raul

As I live upstate, I only deal with state and local regs. The NYC thing is imposed by NYC department of health. They may be uncooperative as I've even spoke with prominent wildlife biologists and herpetologists who've told me that even they couldn't get temporary permits to take animals on the TV shows(Conan, Today Show, Letterman, etc.).

Your best bet is to contact someone in the NY Herp Society and find out if any members there have permits and how to obtain them. I realize you're dilemna, with a "Deadly" ball python, but keep in mind....you're dealing with bureacrats who generally feel if it isn't mainstream and ordinary, we need to ban it and when you have instances like the tiger in the Harlem apartment....the laws had a purpose, except the people they were intended to stop usually ignore them anyway.

I also just recently moved to upstate NY (well we consider it upstate coming from NJ) and would liek to know of any regulations or permits needed in Steuben county regarding teh keeping of Ball Pythons and Columbian Red Tail Boas. I am also considering buying a Hatchling Common Snapping Turtle from a show or off the internet. Am I able to do this? I also have Leopard Geckos, Veiled Chameleon and a Mexican Orange-Knee Tarantula. Any help regarding anything that I am doing illegal would help greatly!

DJ

As long as your local town has no restrictions on pythons/boas...there's nothing statewide restricting anything you have. Snappers aren't restricted.

Then let the legislators hear from you! We need to talk to the people writing and passing the laws, or else they'll never know anything else.

Katrina

The Upstate Herp Association has submitted about 700 signatures via petitions to the bill sponsors as well as the Senate and Assembly Environmental Conservation Committees.

The real disadvantage I see, is that unlike HSUS and PETA, we do not have a lobbyist in Albany. If you have any info on how to obtain or hire one, please let me know, although this is could be cost prohibitive for the reptile club.

I'll check on the lobbiest thing for you.

But, in the meantime, those 700 members need to write thier representative themselves. Better still, they should make an appointment with their representative. I know it's hard with work and family, but it has the most impact. Any individual can set an appointment.

In MD a small group of turtle lovers wrote and lobbied to have a law passed in MD to allow turtle breeding agian. At one committee hearing we actually spoke against Teresa Telecky, who wrote the HSUS book on reptiles. Since HSUS is headquarted in the DC area, it took very little of her time to make the trip to Annapolis. We had no professional lobbiest, just being there in person helps.

Katrina

It takes very little time to sign your name, but the few minutes it takes to write to a representative is too much trouble for some people. It's really sad. I'd venture a guess and say that maybe 5% of the people who signed the petition actually took the time to write a ltter or e-mail. What's even worse is the fact that there are people who don't even live in this country, let alone NY, that care more about the proposed legislation and have taken the time to try to fight it.
We can't make people care about a bill that isn't going to affect them anyway.....people are going to keep reptiles and certain animals in NY regardless of whether it's legal or not. We shouldn't even have gotten this far with this if we had enough people that really care for the hobby. Everyone talks a big game on internet forums, but in reality, peopel are content to let others ( such as Matt ) do the work for them.....it's the American way.
If enough people come forward, we MAY have a chance.

I understand, your point, but keep in mind, we're dealing with the most over-taxed, over-regulated state in the nation....but Hey, Hillary Clinton will save us!!!

The big sticking point, is that, while the proposed bill has a turtle provision allowing us to keep turtles "Not deemed Dangerous"...., the real keepers being affected are large python and venomous keepers.

Its obviously much easier to repeal a "cute turtle" regulation than one for venomous snakes or constrictors. Basically, most New Yorkers have the attitude that "If it doesn't effect me, what do I care?" It's just the way it is. I can't convince them all to take the time to meet with their representatives(and frankly in some cases, it may do more harm than good) but we keep plodding on. I for one, will not resort to keeping overpriced "designer ball pythons" because they are "More profitable". I keep and breed lanceheads and bushmasters and that's simply my passion......I can't give it up because some un-educated legislator thinks he/she "knows whats best for the public interest".

Frankly, I doubt most of the public really gives a hoot.