Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm thinking we need a commercial paternity test for ball pythons.

Any experts out there correct me but it looks to me like some lab would need to find some ball python genes with lots of common alleles (presumably not appearance morphs genes). The more such genes that could be found and incorporated into a paternity test the better the certainty of the results of that test.

I found companies that already offer tests for most domestic farm animals and even three species of fish. Surely the ball python industry would have more need for a paternity test than the tilapia industry!

An economic paternity test for ball pythons could have the following uses:

1. An extra certification to offer with the purchase of a het. Not sure if the breeder or the purchaser would pay for it but an extra $60 - $120 to certify that your multi thousand dollar het is from the right father seems reasonable. I'm not sure how common we would find sperm retention to be, probably not very common but I have heard of at least one documented case where the offspring where all from the previous year's male and not the new year's male. Did anyone hear any updated news on the parthogenic Burmese python in Europe this year? Hopefully that is even more rare but who knows without tests.

2. Allow breeders to use multiple males. Except for certain morphs crosses you would currently have to use only a single male on a virgin female if you want to be sure who the father is. With a paternity test you could use multiple males and sort out the parentage of the interesting ones later. You wouldn't have to put all your eggs in one basket (what if the one male is not a good breeder or infertile) and you could also try to get clutches with mixed fathers so as to make multiple crosses in one breeding season.

3. Discourage theft. You could keep a genetic catalog of your collection (perhaps an off site file of shed skins). If you have a rare animal stolen and you later suspect that another breeder is selling it's offspring a paternity test could confirm or deny this. Of course a way would have to be found to obtain a sample from the suspected offspring (perhaps after they are sold to a sympathetic member of the community). The idea is to make it known that you have samples of all your animals in addition to a security system, good pattern recognition pictures, and perhaps also implanted transponders. If they can't sell the stolen snakes or even their offspring then theft should be much less attractive.

So, someone with connections to a lab that could do this kind of work get after it!

I know this isnt my turf but, saw this and figured I would be qualified to respond being a Biology major and the fact I though about this just yesterday during a lab. Randy good suggestion but, the idea is utterly infeasable. First although the theories of Python Regius color morphs are exactly that theories except for maybe amelanism. To my knowledge no one has done much genetic work or none at all. Where these mutation occur on the genetic code is anyones guess. You would more then likely need to map out the Genome of Python Regius. No one really has anything to gain from a map of Python Regius's Genome. The only animals to have genomes mapped out are scientific Model organisms such as Mus Muscilis(Mice) and Drosophilla Melongaster (Fruit Fly) etc. There is much to gain in terms of research from these animals scientifically because of their use in genetic research or in the case of Mice the fact that their small mammals that people dont put up a fuss about clinical trials and testing. Python Regius has nothing to really give in terms of scientific research. I would doubt that a University would pickup a project like that. The private sector would probably not because they probably couldnt gain anything financially. It would also probably take considerable money Im sure no one would put up for a firm to even consider this project. The best adivce when it comes to genetic security is to keep good records and dont deal with shady individuals. Maybe someday something will intrest science into genetic research on Python Regius or maybe even some Reptile considering the general lack of genetic research on reptiles. I would love to see this happen but, I cant see it happening for a long time or at all.

Sorry for any spelling errors been up all day

didnt see your exemption of color morphs my bad, but still genetic testing on BP's would really spark a company to look into the genes of ball pythons besides a you can never really look at a few alleles untill you have a some grap of the organism genetic code and can determine much.

Yes, I had already heard of the difficulties in finding the genes for a specific morph. I was hoping that if you really didn't care what the gene does but just needed to find any few genes with lots of alleles for paternity testing that it would be a lot easier.

It sounds like perhaps the species with existing paternity tests (most farm animals, the three commercial fish) have them because it wasn't that hard to develop based on a great deal of pre-existing genetic work with those species. Perhaps starting from scratch with ball pythons in order to develop a paternity test would be pushing the limits of what is currently economically viable. A shame, but I bet it will be practical eventually. In the case of the parthogenetic burm I remember reading about them doing some sort of basic genetic tests to confirm that her offspring where clones of her.

Your right, I would love nothing more then some gentetic testing on anything reptile. However, keep this in mind there is an economical isentive for work to be done on farm animals because of the discovery of say longer production faster weight gain or longer life span etc. I know first hand the expense involved in this work and man-hours required. The only way I can see work done on Balls if there was some genetic similarity to a human gene. The Burmese parthogenic(Virgin Birth) is a a genetic phenomonon that most geneticists would have an intrest no matter what the taxa. I just thought of this I think if anyone was to put money towards any form of Boid Research it should be towards IBD research at UF if it hasnt been yanked off life suppourt.

I have had many discussions with several different people regarding the feasibility of the tests in question. One of the greatest potential problems with it is establishing what you are looking for. I had a conversation with a professor friend of mine and he told me that in several other animals they had found that 9 different genotypic mutations could cause the same phenotypic result. Fortunately this has not been the case with MOST forms of ball python mutations. I can't imagine how any company could decipher all of the needed info and ever recoup their investment, at any price the industry would be willing to pay. I do think that the way this will play out is that the "shady" individuals will "shake" out of the industry leaving strong honorable people to benefit. That being said I have certainly seen scumbags benefit greatly at the cost of honest hard working people through the period of time that it takes for everyone to find out that they are indeed scum. Douglas beard / Flora & Fauna