Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just curious, why do you keep/breed poisonous reptiles and other creatures? Do you supply zoos or milk them for venom or what?
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

i have several friends who keep venomous reptiles. one of my buddies likes to watch them and observe them in captivity. he does not milk their venom or supply zoo's with stock however he is extremely picky to whom he sells to. he keeps several species of elapid and says they are very unique and rewarding animals. reciently he was awarded a grant and got to go to africa, accompanied by national geographic to study a species of water cobra . there he milked them weighed them and measured them. he will be sending the venom off to be studied. but he does not do this for a living this is part of his hobby, this is what he enjoys doing. he likes the hots more for the behavorial aspect. but mind you these are not pets and should only be handled and dealt with by an extrmely experienced handler. we currently keep a broadbanded copperhead and she has been a great captive and we have learned alot from her.. not only about hots but reptiles in general. technically her vemon is not potent enough to kill us but if i or my husband was to be allergic to it and go into anaphactic shock it could very well be either serious or fatal. when keeping hots many protocols HAVE to be in place and your awareness and responsibilty has to be very high.
i do not think hots should be allowed to be kept by just anyone. most people should not keep them, they are dangerous but if kept and cared for properly and handled by experienced keepers they can be extremely rewarding... sarah if you would like to leanr more about venomous animals here is a great link

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/

http://www.kingsnake.com/snakegetters/

alot of what you hear about them is false info and or old wives tales... however some if factual........
-----
-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

When you say behavior, how are they different? Do you mean hunting behavior mainly? I would not have guessed that you had a hot in your collection, would love to see a pic if you have one to post
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

well depending on what type of hot you have depends on the behavior....
i can not say except for our copperhead, but as far as any snake, she is docile... while we only handle her with proper tubes... hooks and rubes and would handle her with nothing but those tools... she is more docile than alot of our boas. we only feed FT but it is amazing how right before she strikes she begin opening her mouth as to yawn BUT i am assuming she is getting her venom ready...
she also brumates durring the winter and to watch them change from little grey-ish hatchlings with green tails to their adult color is unique.
so far she has been great on a hook and has been the perfect animal but ya still cant let your gard down
did you know that a venomous snake can bite you without injecting venom? (also called a dry bite).. in a very primitive way they can chose to inject venom or not to.
some of the most impressive animals i have ever had the pleasure of watching were hots, one was a juvinile 7 foot king cobra which fed on rodents (rare since they are snake feeders) and some young juvi green mambas which moved as fast as i could, litterally and of course the sight and touch (tubed and restrained bu a experiened kepper)) of a puff adder, what beautiful, textured keeled scales... or cute little pissy false water cobras acting all bad hooding up...
so many things, they are completely different from any other reptile and they demand your extra attention and your humble respect

-----
-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

she's gorgeous!
-----
Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

Nice little copper..... They are a very under rated hot...... The vemon is capable of killing an adult human...... Do you have an epi pen handy???? If not, you should....... Also the bite can be somewhat nacrotic....... You can loose some tissue as a result of a bite and from what I have heard it is a very painful experiance...... Dry bites do occure in this species but I would not count on that...... Venomous snakes have 100% control over their venom yeild...... Tiny muscles in the head constrict the venom gland...... It is a very controled action...... ANY venomous snake should be treat with respect and should never be considered sub-lethal....... With the snakes I keep, I need to have AV handy because they are not native species and you cant rely on AV from zoos....... You can deplete a zoos supply pretty quick with a bad envenomation....... Then there is nothing or not enough for the zoo staff is a bite happens....... AV for non-native species is a big pain to get but worth it...... FDA permits are needed to import it into this country....... But the AV for native species is much more expensive....... AV (crofab) for rattlers, coppers, cottons, can cost well over $750.00 a vial where as AV (sapv) for the species I keep only cost $75.00 to $80.00 A vial....... 10 vials is usually the minimum used to treat a bite of any kind...... Serious bites needing alot more..... Plus a bite protocol should be handy at all times....... Cant rely on hospital staff to know how to treat a venomous snake bite, especially from an exotic species....... I will post a pic just to show how hemo/cytotoxic a gaboon bite is...... Fortunatly it was a rat and not me that got bit.....LOL

yes we do have an epi pen on hand and a bite protcol as well, and have been trained in snake bite first aid.. the do's and don'ts... when i say she is docile its her demonor is but we can never let are gaurd down.. we did alot of work and research before even thinking bout a hot, in fact our mentor would not sell to us until we got all the nessicary tools and we had the experience and we worked with him, on hooking, tubing and pinning.... all safety protocols we have listed in out snake room next to her enclosure .. including first aid... phone numbers of hosp, mentor and a few others, scientific name.. closest zoo and what antivenom should be used and its basic dosing and the toxicty and venom yeild (normally) we are very careful and take every precaution imaginable... we didnt jump into this... it took us three years to train,work with and finally decide on one and the responsibilty.
we have had for for right at a year and thus far she has been a good captive... but we can never trust her or get complacent in our handling and protocols, thats when we get bit... venom is venom plain and simple thank you for your info i would enjoy hearing about more of your experiences and what not... thank you-robin
-----
-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

Some zoos have some of my stock...... I keep them because I love them and totaly facinated by them....... I breed them because I am a firm believer in captive propagation...... I feel it is a waste to have them in captivity if you are not doing anything for the species...... I also have a few scientific papers written on a couple of species....... I like to share my knowledge and what I have learned from keeping them in captivity........ Education is a big part of why I keep them....... I do not milk any of my animals because there are too many risks associated with the practice both to me and my snakes...... It is a very sressful procedure for the snakes...... It ups the chances of me taking a bite from a very venomous snake..... I have never taken a bite and take great pride in that...... I dont feel the need to play with my snakes so I dont feel I am missing out on anything....... I am happy just watching them and handling them with the proper tool when I have to........ There is nothing that acts like a hot snake and any hot keeper will tell you the same..... I fell that I have worked my way up to be able to keep and house these snakes safely....... Venomous snakes are not for everyone and for very good reason........ Thank you for the very good question...... I guess it is a good change of topic that some of us needed.....LOL..... I have some pics in my gallery...... Check them out they are pretty neat......

this is a far out question, but.....
are u the same gaboon that used to go to the fighters anthology gaming boards??

just curious
-----
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Lizards

1.4.0 leopard geckos - raine, mango, noodle, jaws, & sobe
0.1 bearded dragon - sydney
0.1 king snake & 0.2.3 corn snakes
1 red eye tree frogs, 3 green tree frogs, 2 firebelly toads
5 anoles,8.0 bettas & numerous tropicals
1.2 dogs (dachshund-pepper, brittany spaniel-jenni, lab-kaci)
1 hubby & 2 boys

www.skayart.com

I think there is a kind of snake called the Gaboon viper, I assumed he keeps Gaboon vipers...
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

yep, i know of the snakes.
the guy that i am refering too raised gaboons
-----
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Lizards

1.4.0 leopard geckos - raine, mango, noodle, jaws, & sobe
0.1 bearded dragon - sydney
0.1 king snake & 0.2.3 corn snakes
1 red eye tree frogs, 3 green tree frogs, 2 firebelly toads
5 anoles,8.0 bettas & numerous tropicals
1.2 dogs (dachshund-pepper, brittany spaniel-jenni, lab-kaci)
1 hubby & 2 boys

www.skayart.com

It's very interesting, though for me I'd rather hear about/see it from a distance, if you know what I mean. I was wondering as it's not something you could PAY me to do, but then lots of people think I'm weird for breeding Leopard Geckos, so touché. I will check out your gallery pics.
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

That's also why he is so cranky, or so I heard....
-----
Sam
Gecko Den
Email Me

Hey Sam,
How are your cresteds doing? I hatched my last clutch of eggs from the 2003 breeding season yesterday. I just warmed up the Rhac room last week and hope to get eggs coming in a few weeks. I already have 2 clutches from my striped gargoyles.
-----
Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
And the circling is worth it.
Finding beauty in the dissonance." - Maynard James Keenan

LOL,Sam why did you have to go and tell everyone about my short comings.....LOL.... How are the leos????