Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ive been trying to breed rats and they eat each other. 3 out of 11 have died. i came home today and frozen them all except 3 pregnant females (if i dont im afraid their goin to kill each other, till theres none left). their in a 10 gallon and ive tried putting some salt savors in there (was told it keeps them from eating each other). these petshop rats are really suck. anyone know why theyre eating each other?? thanks, justin

lol dont tell me you kept eleven rats in one ten gallon tank! hello can you say "common sense"!

let me clarify this for brain surgeon. they were mice i typed rats so i could get some solutions if no one in the mice forum had any answers. thanks for the wisdom moses.

re read the sentance.

petshop rats are really suck. hello do you have any trace of grammar skills at all leftin your brain?

sorry if i hurt your feelings, but im there for you man. so dont do nothin stupid and go hurt yourself. oh yea and how long did it take you to find something to say back to me??? you should have used your brain cells for some more usefull like signing your name on a check than trying to offend me. hello do you have any trace of grammar skills at all "leftin" your brain? i guess you need some grammer school too, grammer school drop out! hehe dont breed or inbreed which ever one you thought of doing. lol bye. thanks everyone else for being courteous and like mature human beings (sorry for all the stuff i just typed and if it affended anyone). bye, justin

It is spelled, "sentence"...
Sorry, had to say something.
-Steve

there is more than one male present (one wants to get rid of all the young ones to populate the world with just his offspring), they're just "cleaning up," or there is a shortage of food.

Since they're eating eachother now and have a taste for it, I would get rid of them all and start fresh. Keep those 3 long enough to have the babies and ween them, then keep a few babies grow into your next breeders. I would just keep a few females and buy a new male so that you wont have an inbreeding problem.

Now, if you've only got a 10 gallon tank, you should only keep 1 male and 2 to 3 females in it. 4 rats is really pushing it but 3 is probably better. More important than space is keeping the food and water source constant for them so this doesn't happen again.

10 gallons for 3 rats? I keep my rats in a large 151 liter tub and I feel it is kind of small. (probably equivanlent to a 35 or 40 gal tank). If I remember correctly a 10gal tank is only about 18" long x 8" wide x 16" high (I am guessing here so may be off by a couple inches in each dimension). An adult rat female is around 8" long (nose to base of tail) and having three in a 10 gal seems horribly small. The real cause of them attacking and eating eachother sounds to me, to be due to stress caused by over crowding.

I would move all three pregnant females into a larget container and let them give birth. Otherwise, if they still feel crowded there is a very high chance they will eat their own young.

you must have much smaller rats than I do. My male would have a hard time turning around in a space that small, especially when there is a hide for the rats to sleep in and nesting space, plus room for moving around. But then again, I am sure many rat breeders have had success housing 3 adult rats plus offspring in such a small space over the years. To me it seems way to small for that many rats. I keep 4 rats in a 28"x20"x18" tub and have had no problems with them reproducing or any eating of eachother or their young.

I think my rats are the same size. LOL!!

For 20-some years, I've used a 20 gallon (24 by 12.5 and 16 high) and I usually keep 1 male to 4 females. 3 is better because with 4 females the babies tend to make it crowded quickly. With this kind of set up, the babies do have to be pulled as soon as they are weaned. The dimensions of a 10 gallon aren't much smaller but I still think it's best to keep the population to 3.

A family of 3 plus babies in a walk-in closet.

Just because they can fit doesn't mean it is in their best interest. Especially when they are not thriving - it's pretty clear why that is.
-----
Herps~
1.0 Ball Python (Squeeze)
1.0 Amel Corn (Ashbury)
1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milk (Diablito)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Nyoka)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Spike)
0.0.1 Treefrog (Keropi)
0.0.3 African Dwarf frogs
0.1 Red Eared Slider (Shelly)

Dogs~
1.0 6 y/o GSD/Mastiff/Shar-pei (Max)
0.1 7 y/o Pit bull/lab (Missy)
0.1 2 y/o Chow/ACD (Sierra)
1.0 6 y/o terrier x ??? (Tripper)

Cats~
1.0 6 y/o black DSH (Salem)
1.0 3 y/o Tuxedo DSH (Felix)
1.0 8 y/o Orange DLH (Benji)
0.1 10 y/o black tabby DSH (Peppermint)
0.1 3 y/o Calico DSH (Abby)
0.1 2 y/o W&B DSH (Bob)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Figaro)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Jasmine)
0.1 2 y/o Calico DSH (Raja)

Birds~
1.0 Alexandrine (Alex)
1.0 Yellow Collared Mini Macaw (Baby)
1.0 Indian Ringneck (Rosie)
1.0 Sun Conure (Tango)
1.0 Red Lored Amazon (Rocky)
0.3 Peachfaced Lovebirds; Lutino (Tweety), Dutch blue (Delilah), and Pied (Iago)

Rodents~
0.1 Syrian Hamster (Amelia)
0.2 Dumbo rats (Elizabeth & Cheddar)
0.1 Het Beige Chinchilla (Zion)
1.0 3-legged Black TOV Chin (Smokey)

Rabbits~
1.0 Tri colored Mini Rex (Buster)
0.1 chinchilla French Lop (Martha)

Fish~
29 Gallon tank with Neon tetras, a betta, a guppy, 3 frogs, 3 sand loaches, 2 platies, 1 dwarf gourami, and a cory cat.
Plus 3 5-gallon tanks with one betta each.

;

.
-----
Herps~
1.0 Ball Python (Squeeze)
1.0 Amel Corn (Ashbury)
1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milk (Diablito)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Nyoka)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Spike)
0.0.1 Treefrog (Keropi)
0.0.3 African Dwarf frogs
0.1 Red Eared Slider (Shelly)

Dogs~
1.0 6 y/o GSD/Mastiff/Shar-pei (Max)
0.1 7 y/o Pit bull/lab (Missy)
0.1 2 y/o Chow/ACD (Sierra)
1.0 6 y/o terrier x ??? (Tripper)

Cats~
1.0 6 y/o black DSH (Salem)
1.0 3 y/o Tuxedo DSH (Felix)
1.0 8 y/o Orange DLH (Benji)
0.1 10 y/o black tabby DSH (Peppermint)
0.1 3 y/o Calico DSH (Abby)
0.1 2 y/o W&B DSH (Bob)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Figaro)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Jasmine)
0.1 2 y/o Calico DSH (Raja)

Birds~
1.0 Alexandrine (Alex)
1.0 Yellow Collared Mini Macaw (Baby)
1.0 Indian Ringneck (Rosie)
1.0 Sun Conure (Tango)
1.0 Red Lored Amazon (Rocky)
0.3 Peachfaced Lovebirds; Lutino (Tweety), Dutch blue (Delilah), and Pied (Iago)

Rodents~
0.1 Syrian Hamster (Amelia)
0.2 Dumbo rats (Elizabeth & Cheddar)
0.1 Het Beige Chinchilla (Zion)
1.0 3-legged Black TOV Chin (Smokey)

Rabbits~
1.0 Tri colored Mini Rex (Buster)
0.1 chinchilla French Lop (Martha)

Fish~
29 Gallon tank with Neon tetras, a betta, a guppy, 3 frogs, 3 sand loaches, 2 platies, 1 dwarf gourami, and a cory cat.
Plus 3 5-gallon tanks with one betta each.

People successfully keep 3-4 rats in a litter pan rack set up.

If you don't believe me, try it yourself. LOL!

Rats, as with most other animals, will not hesitate to cannibilize if their habitat is too cramped. They may be social animals, but a 10 gallon tank cannot hold more than 1 rat (and of course they should not be housed alone..) and even that is really pushing it.

Are you sure you even have rats? I noticed you posted practically the same question about mice on the exotics website or do you keep 11 mice in one 10 gal tank and 11 rats in a second and are expericing the same problem with both groups? Or did you have 22 animals in the same 10 gal tank? (a mix of 11 rats and 11 mice).

In either case, your tanks are too small for the number of animals you are keeping in them. I suggest reading more about how to care and breed mice/rats both further down on this forum and caresheets for both animals.

i had mice until i froze them all yesterday (no rats). i just typed rats to see if anyone could throw in some solutions. im gonna start over with rats tho. sry about that everyone, justin

a history channel study about rats proved that when large numbers are confined to small spaces these symptoms occur-
1)Excessive breeding
2)Violence
3)poor health
4)Cannibalism
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0.1 Albino Leopard gecko
Coming Soon
1.0 ball python

>>ive been trying to breed rats and they eat each other. 3 out of 11 have died. i came home today and frozen them all except 3 pregnant females (if i dont im afraid their goin to kill each other, till theres none left). their in a 10 gallon and ive tried putting some salt savors in there (was told it keeps them from eating each other). these petshop rats are really suck. anyone know why theyre eating each other?? thanks, justin

Rats and mice are totally different. So saying rats when you have mice is counter productive. Truths about rats won't work with mice.

Mice cannabalize due to poor diet, cramped living conditions, stress from being handled or checked on too much, stress from putting a new group together when some are pregnant. Putting more than one male in the group.

The only time I have had a rat eat another rat was a 'clean up' after the first rat died and the rest ate her.

If you want to start a group I would recommend getting one male and 3-8 females....in a 10 gal I would go 1.4 YOUNG, half grown mice. Raise them together and let them breed. Rushing the process getting pregnant ones may sabatoge setting up a productive group...as you have seen.
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Sonya

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

-

I do hope that all of these rats weren't housed in a 10 gallon tank?
-----
Herps~
1.0 Ball Python (Squeeze)
1.0 Amel Corn (Ashbury)
1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milk (Diablito)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Nyoka)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Spike)
0.0.1 Treefrog (Keropi)
0.0.3 African Dwarf frogs
0.1 Red Eared Slider (Shelly)

Dogs~
1.0 6 y/o GSD/Mastiff/Shar-pei (Max)
0.1 7 y/o Pit bull/lab (Missy)
0.1 2 y/o Chow/ACD (Sierra)
1.0 6 y/o terrier x ??? (Tripper)

Cats~
1.0 6 y/o black DSH (Salem)
1.0 3 y/o Tuxedo DSH (Felix)
1.0 8 y/o Orange DLH (Benji)
0.1 10 y/o black tabby DSH (Peppermint)
0.1 3 y/o Calico DSH (Abby)
0.1 2 y/o W&B DSH (Bob)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Figaro)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Jasmine)
0.1 2 y/o Calico DSH (Raja)

Birds~
1.0 Alexandrine (Alex)
1.0 Yellow Collared Mini Macaw (Baby)
1.0 Indian Ringneck (Rosie)
1.0 Sun Conure (Tango)
1.0 Red Lored Amazon (Rocky)
0.3 Peachfaced Lovebirds; Lutino (Tweety), Dutch blue (Delilah), and Pied (Iago)

Rodents~
0.1 Syrian Hamster (Amelia)
0.2 Dumbo rats (Elizabeth & Cheddar)
0.1 Het Beige Chinchilla (Zion)
1.0 3-legged Black TOV Chin (Smokey)

Rabbits~
1.0 Tri colored Mini Rex (Buster)
0.1 chinchilla French Lop (Martha)

Fish~
29 Gallon tank with Neon tetras, a betta, a guppy, 3 frogs, 3 sand loaches, 2 platies, 1 dwarf gourami, and a cory cat.
Plus 3 5-gallon tanks with one betta each.

i do hope all of your animals arent housed in one house. no they were mice and i thougt i could get a solution to why they were eating each other here. thanks, justin

If they are mice, then why was your post entitled "rat breeding" and directed entirely toward rats??

Yes, all of my animals are in one house. Along with me and my family. They aren't all squeezed into a tiny aquarium, though.

.
.
-----
Herps~
1.0 Ball Python (Squeeze)
1.0 Amel Corn (Ashbury)
1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milk (Diablito)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Nyoka)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Spike)
0.0.1 Treefrog (Keropi)
0.0.3 African Dwarf frogs
0.1 Red Eared Slider (Shelly)

Dogs~
1.0 6 y/o GSD/Mastiff/Shar-pei (Max)
0.1 7 y/o Pit bull/lab (Missy)
0.1 2 y/o Chow/ACD (Sierra)
1.0 6 y/o terrier x ??? (Tripper)

Cats~
1.0 6 y/o black DSH (Salem)
1.0 3 y/o Tuxedo DSH (Felix)
1.0 8 y/o Orange DLH (Benji)
0.1 10 y/o black tabby DSH (Peppermint)
0.1 3 y/o Calico DSH (Abby)
0.1 2 y/o W&B DSH (Bob)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Figaro)
0.1 2 y/o B&W DSH (Jasmine)
0.1 2 y/o Calico DSH (Raja)

Birds~
1.0 Alexandrine (Alex)
1.0 Yellow Collared Mini Macaw (Baby)
1.0 Indian Ringneck (Rosie)
1.0 Sun Conure (Tango)
1.0 Red Lored Amazon (Rocky)
0.3 Peachfaced Lovebirds; Lutino (Tweety), Dutch blue (Delilah), and Pied (Iago)

Rodents~
0.1 Syrian Hamster (Amelia)
0.2 Dumbo rats (Elizabeth & Cheddar)
0.1 Het Beige Chinchilla (Zion)
1.0 3-legged Black TOV Chin (Smokey)

Rabbits~
1.0 Tri colored Mini Rex (Buster)
0.1 chinchilla French Lop (Martha)

Fish~
29 Gallon tank with Neon tetras, a betta, a guppy, 3 frogs, 3 sand loaches, 2 platies, 1 dwarf gourami, and a cory cat.
Plus 3 5-gallon tanks with one betta each.

ive already explained this read my earlier posts.

>>ive already explained this read my earlier posts.

Maybe I'm alittle slow but I can't understand why you said rats instead of mice( which is what you now say you really have) What different suggestions did you think you would get?
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Anna

1.0.0 Ball Python {Shane}
1.0.0 Afican Bullfrog {Bungy}
1.2.5 Crested Geckos {Mel, Sally, Momma, unnamed}
0.0.1 Giant Black African Millipede {Milly}
1.1.0 Parakeets {Kiefer& Daisy}
1.0.0 Short Tail Possum {Eddie}
1.0.0 Lab/Pionter mix {Vegas}
1.0.0 Fluffy Orange Kitty {Kenny}
1.0.0 Betta {George}
1.0.0 Boyfriend {Brian}
2 fish tanks with lots of fish

Thats it for now.....

the suggestions i wanted to hear were "any suggestions". thats the reason i asked because i didnt know why and had no clue that mice and rats were so different. thanks, justin

It probably doesn't have to do with coming from pet shop or not. It may be due to many different factors.
Justin