Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How many albino morphs are there?

To my knowledge, which I'll admit isn't as extensive as some of our members here, there are 3.

Tremper, Rainwater and Bell

Jeff

Don't forget - Patternless & Blizzards are, technically, Albinos. After all, albinos are animals that are lacking in pigment.
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Crystal Light (Yes..thats my real name)

*Whenever you lose a gecko, just think of it as God building on his own Leopard Gecko collection

www.thegeckobarn.com

besides blizzerd and paternless, do any of you have pics of the tremper, rainwater, and bell? i would really like to c these phases.
thanx
nevin

my lil blizzard, Grim (Grimreaper) still a baby

this one is a Tremper tang

I'll leave it to others to post RW and Bell

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Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

Tremper Albino with aberrant pattern:

Pretty sweet..... SF Gecko stock.....

An albino is not just lacking in pigment...a true albino has NO melanin (black pigmentation), and therefore has red eyes because there is no melanin to color the eye. Having a pattern and color doesn't mean an animal is not an albino...it is not producing melanin that makes an animal albino. I have heard that the albino strains of leo may not be true albinos either (they do have some eye color and some have some dark pigmentation). I'm not really clear on the albino status of the morphs as I haven't really looked into it any...but I think someone on the forum has some stats about it.
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

A lack of melanin is specifcally termed Amelanism. There's also Anerythrism which is a lack of red pigment in cornsnakes (and they have black eyes), this is also considered a type of albinism.

In cornsnakes, two albinisms (anerythrism and amelanism) can be combined to get you a totally white snake (blizzard/snow).

Eye color is not a true indication of albinism though it is true in most animals (mammals especially) that albinism will take away the pigment in the eyes (or atleast the black pigment). There's also occular albinism that affecst the eyes only (so you can have red/blue eyes yet have black hair). There is also leucism which is not albinism but a pigment mutation where the eyes retain all their pigment but the skin loses all it's pigment. Also, in leopard geckos I THINK the albinism (tremper, rainwater, bell) is caused by tyrosinase inhibition since melanin disorders are usually tyrosinase-negative albinisms.

-Lemur 6

Yes, patternless and blizzards are not albinos.

Patternless is a pattern mutation, while blizzards are leucistics.

-Lemur 6

srry but i would hafta agree with stina

This is another one of those "arguments". The definition of albinism is a pretty hot topic among geneticists. Some people say albinism is when there is a TOTAL lack of pigment, so unless you are totally white, have white hair, and have red eyes, you're not an albino. Some say, only partial albinism is enough to be considered albino, so if you have a patch of white skin on your caused by tyrosinase-inhibition you're an albino.

In humans albinism is simple, since we only have melanin, which is why most people will say albinism means lack of melanin. But other animals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, have more than just melanin in terms of pigment. So in other animals, lack of melanin is not sufficient enough definition for albino.

If you feel this is still wrong, what would you classify a chicken with red eyes and white feathers but normal yellow skin? What about a chicken with black eyes, white/pink skin, and white feathers? What about a chicken with black feathers, yellow skin and red eyes? You see what I mean? It's hard to define exactly without having it encompass everything.

Pay good attention, if this is your topic area. Everyone is giving extremely valid points and excellent information (as well as corrections and arguments) that y'all can use.

i must say i cant get involved in this argument cause my knowledge is very limited on the subject, so ill stay outta it from here on.
nevin

It is unanimously accepted that albinism is a recessive gene. In cows for example there are genes that affect coat color, though there are some DOMINANT genes that make a cow white, which will just be classfied as a WHITE coat color gene, not albino.

-Lemur 6

I was simply referring to the classical terms of albinism...not the broad bases..."well maybe this should be considered albino...and maybe that..." If you only go by strict terms of the "original" definition of what albinism means, it is a complete lack of (usually) melanin. This normally means red eyes...although I think the eyes can have color...however the pupil will ALWAYS be a very deep dark reddish brown color in a true albino. There can still be other colors in the skin...i.e. yellow in albino snakes. Anyway...point is I was just describing albinism in the simplest terms...in other words what is/has been/and always will be considered albino. Also, I was making the point that patternless and blizzard aren't albinos...although for some reason I didn't just come out and say it...lol
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

an albino. Some animals lack melanin comletely (some cave dwelling salamanders for example). However, these are not albino even if they lack melanin. The only problem with your characterization of albinism in reference to eye color is that these salamanders don't have eyes (they have rudimentary light sensing pores) and a number of other animals don't have eyes either. So how do people determine if these animals are albino or not? Here's how:

In order to be albino, you must have double alleles of a recessive gene that inhibits a pigmentation protein be it tyrosinase, carotinase, etc. (in humans it's tyrosinase, which metabolizes tyrosine into melanin, which is why the definition of albinism in human terms is a lack of melanin producing protein), a genetic defect if you will.

Does it make sense what my "important point" was now?

-Lemur 6

I understand what you're saying...I was just trying to simplify things...
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

which is bad IMHO, since critical points such as pointing out that albinism is a genetic defect get lost. I guess I was getting a little indepth trying to beat that in or used bad examples.

i.e. if I ask you what is a car? and you say it's a metal cabin with wheels, and someone brings you a stagecoach and asks if it's a car, how do you explain it's not a car?

-Lemur 6

I'd say a car has an engine...or had an engine at some point...lol I know what you mean though. I definitely do think its possible to oversimplify...schools have been doing it for ages...lol You'll learn one thing and then a couple years later they'll go and tell you it's wrong and this is the way it really is...I hate when they do that...lol I was wrong in saying melanin...I should have just said dark pigmentation...I apologize for that. However I would still only consider a white animal with red eyes a true albino (and of course a recessive gene causing it). I would not consider a snake lacking red pigments but still having black (sorry I forgot what you called it and didn't feel like looking it up...lol) an albino. If you look it up in a dictionary also, it will tell you that an albino is a person/animal that is white (pink skinned...however it works in each individual species) with pink/red eyes.
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

Didnt I say that in another post about what an albino is???? LOL

A dictionary is NOT the place the get a definition of a scientific term. A dictionary is meant for the layman, not a scientist, a genetics text book or journal on the other hand will tell you something else (yes more detail, but more correct).

Also, not all "true" albinos (if one even exists) have red eyes. I'm not quite sure where you got this impression that albinos MUST have red eyes. The red colour comes from the colour of the retina refracted through the iris of the eye. Not all animals have red blood, so in those animals the pupils will not be red (some animals have milky white blood, while others have black/dark blood), and in many cases the iris is not transparent enough for that to happen. However I'm not saying that it is impossible for an animal to have red eyes. Rodents have relatively transparent irises, which allows a great amount of light to enter their eyes and be reflected, which makes their entire eye look red.

In humans, albinism manifests itself through grey or light blue eyes, not red. The pupils remain black (unless you shine a strong light directly into them, however this makes anyone's eyes red, look at camera photo's with people that have red eye). Also, DO NOT DO THIS to an ocular albino person as it could severely damage their already bad vision. If I shine my maglight flashlight into the eyes of one of my friends who has very light blue eyes it looks red, yet she is not an albino. So the classfication that albinos must have red eyes (pupils or irises) is a moot point as ALL animals with red blood have red pupils (if you shine a light) and not all albinos have red irises.

In Leopard geckos, not all albinos have red eyes. This is simply due to the degree of pigment reduction and the types of pigments affected. My tremper for example has off-white coloured eyes, the slit pupils are not red even when fully dilated. If you do try to shine a light into his eyes, the pupils will contract preventing light bouncing off the red retina to reach the cornea, so it will remain black (this is caused by shadow, not by pigment, as if there were any pigment in the pupil, we probably wouldn't be able to see anything).

However, an albino leo would not fit your description of an albino since there is still some yellow and lavendar pigments in the skin (and the lavendar gets very dark in places of spotting). But there is the entire forum for you to argue over that, almost everyone will agree a tremper/bell/rainwater is a true albino.

Albinism is a pretty interesting field to study, if you're interested I invite you to go and pick up a few journals or other literature and you'll see our exact argument replayed (look at a journal article from 1960's and compare it to modern day journal articles and compare all of those to studies done in Mendel's time, "true" albinism will have a different definition in every single one, but one thing is common in all of them in that they say it is a genetic defect that causes pigment reduction (note that it doesn't specify what pigment)caused by the expression two recessive genes).

-Lemur 6

of where your definition fails:
/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7567] Hypomelanistic Lavender Bloodred

This animal has near white skin, and has red eyes, yet it is NOT an "true albino" or even an albino. This particular animal is a cornsnake with hypomelanism along with two other recessive genes, both of which are pattern mutations. Hypomelanism is the reduction (not complete annhialation) of black pigment, so it still has some black pigment. Also note that the irises are grey, and that in a less bright lighting the eyes appear near black.

-Lemur 6

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-Lemur 6

AAAH!!!!lol I know there is more to albinism that what I was saying...I was trying to put it into laymen's terms...not everyone on the forum is a scientist or cares to know in depth about the genetics and stuff of thier animals. BTW I typed my last post about 10 min. after I woke up this morning and before I even had anything to drink or eat...I was half asleep when I typed it and I don't even remember what I typed...lol One thing that frustrates the crap out of me is that what is considered albino is constantly changing...10 years ago a white horse with pink skin, white hair, and "white" hooves but brown eyes would not have been considered an albino by most...now however, they are. There's also not a lot of consistency to what's considered albino...some people consider one animal albino while others don't, but the same people may disagree in the opposite direction about another animal! The term albino has become to broad in my opinion...and needs to either be narrowed down or used only very loosely and everyone needs to start calling animals/people by the actual conditions affecting them. Just my opinion...
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

The original person who posted the question I believe was a student writing an english paper on geckos. With your definition that person would most likely be confused as albino leopard geckos do not fit your description of what an albino is. Thus I have interjected and hopefully remedied that possible case of confusion. Between us, yes we know what an albino is, however, others do not, and the layman's definition does not apply to geckos as albino geckos do not have white skin nor do they have red eyes.

This was my main point for correcting you, I hope we understand each other now.

-Lemur 6

n/p
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

when I said the white horse thing I meant to say blue eyes...not brown...I'm not sure but I don't think brown eyed white horses are considered albinos...lol I could be wrong...who the heck knows nowadays anyway...lol
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Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)

I do have to stress that albinism is a little complicated in leopard geckos since there's a number of variants.

In corn snakes for example there's two main types of albinism assuming we mean albinism to mean lacking a pigment of some sort be it black, red, or yellow, there's Anerythristic (lacking red), and Amelanistic (lacking black, this is the type of albinism in leopard geckos, so Trember, Rainwater and Bell albinos are all Amelanistic type albinos). There are two types of Anerythristic type A and B, both have slightly different looks just like a Bell albino gecko looks different from a Tremper Albino. These snakes look like a black and white snake.

In humans I think there's only one type of albinism, and one type of "disease" that sort of causes albinism called Vertiligo (I think Michael Jackon "claims" to have this disease and is the reason for his white skin). Albino humans are sort of rare but I know one (a chinese fellow, with red/blue eyes and blond hair and white pink skin).

There's also the reverse side of this as well, called hyper-pigmentation. There's hypermelanism which is alot of black pigment. There's also a middle ground, Hypo-pigmentation, which is a reduction in pigment, so hypo-melanistic there is some black pigment but not as much (so instead of black you get a grey or brown color). So in order of no pigment to alot of pigment is: Albino, Hypo, and Hyper.

If you look up genetics (in a book or online), you can learn how all this works. Albinism is a recessive trait and is hidden in a heterozygous (an animal with two different alleles) and is only expressed in a homozygous animal (an animal with two of the same alleles for the recessive gene).

-Lemur 6