Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just adopted him last night at the Northern California Herp Society meeting. He is supposed to be eating f/t pinks and fuzzies. He is handeable, though shy. He is 22" long and seems pretty healthy. I just dont know what kind of Mtn King he is, and im pretty sure he is a male. Please check the other pics as well.

Dan

.

>>.
>>
-----

>>>>.
>>>>
>>-----
>>
-----

Are you sure that's a knob Keith? Mine always have a touch of red on their head. Never seen one with a black head...

I agree with Keith. It's l.p. knoblochi. They usually do have a red cap, but this one seems to be an exception.

Hi,
Heres a female knob with a black head. I've seen quite a few knobs with pure black head caps. And also, I dont think that pyro looks like a cross either. There is a couple locales of pyros that have the lateral white striping. Especially ones from south east az, and some chris bauble line pyros have that too. Anyways, just wanted share my opinion on it, never the less, its a great looking snake, congrats on getting that guy.
Jeff Teel

Captive Bred Tri-colors

Hi

I agree with jeff. Not all knoblochi have red on their heads. Looking from a couple of years of breeding these guys i've seen them with no red and to a full blown red cap. here's one of my animals that has no red on his cap and almost no black for that matter. Hope it helped.

My Site

Hi,
Havnt talked to you in a while. I saw all your hondo pics, theres some nice ones in there. Anyways, that knob you posted is very cool looking. I've seen a couple applegate phase pyros with very little black on the head cap too, thats what I want to produce, an applegate with a pure white head. Anyways, good luck with your hondos this year.
jeff teel

RETURN????? In America we hit "enter", Keith. lol
-----
Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

LOL I just got rid of my Mac and it's a "Return" instead of "Enter" like on a standard PC. I will conform eventually LOL.

Keith
-----

.

.

.

That's what I call a pretty mountain king. lol
-----
~Banana~

???

It looks like a hybrid.

Pyro x mex-mex???

Kerby...

It sure looks like a cross. Pyro X greeri, or maybe mexicana?? It does not look like pure pyro.

Looks totally legit to me . Im not saying it is but I dont think it looks suspicious at all. I just thought maybe you guys could elobrate on what indicators you see on this snake that make you think hybrid.

Keith
-----

First I did not use the term "hybrid", I said pyro cross. Which means, it simply could be a Knob bred out to more northern populations of pyro. But then it could be a product of breeding to other montane kings. Or lastly, even an oddball knob.

Let me give you some background. I have done many many crosses. But that was many years ago. I have also seen most of the montane kings in nature, some hundreds of times. I live in pyro range and have seen them from many populations. I have seen knobs thruout their range.

This individual is a bit stocky. The black cap on the head, with a white dot in the middle, the serated edges to the black, the floating red and black bands, traid count, the width of the the white, the shape of the head. All this is odd for knobs.

Remember, in captivity, patterns/colors tend to migrate, so indeed, it could be just an odd individual. Also, remember, breeding to other pyros not from its exact local is also crossing.

In reality, this individual should not be assigned to a pure form of pyro, even if it is. Its simply a beautiful montane kingsnake and theres nothing wrong with that.

The last thought is, local types are only important in one direction, that is, from the local to nature. They should never be assigned the other way around, from captivity to nature. If a product of captivity in question, then it should be assigned a generic name.

With all that said, there is a population very close to me that has similar individuals, only they tend to have black bellies. Thanks FR

In the sixth paragraph, "from the local in nature, to captivity", sorry FR

Well actually you said "crossed to something else" and thats fairly vague. You could have meant a cross to a Cape Cobra or a Black Ratsnake for all we know. There is one thing Ive learned with snakes and thats there are no cookie cutter pattern types. Again I will reiterate my statement above I dont know if it is a Hybrid, unnatural intergrade or a natural intergrade. It looks to me like any other Knob Ive seen in the pet trade though.

Keith
-----

I believe I answered that very well, read again. FR

You may have answered it in your second post but your very first post was very vague. You posts are usually well thought out I would think you would explain yourself the fist time without someone having asking you clarify.

Keith
-----

I kind of think these are suppose to be threads. In that, there should be a continuing dialog, not a one and done sort of thing.

The question was simple, my responce was also simple. What is funny is the person has not commented on any of it. There may be a history that would shed lite on what the snake really is. FR

From what I gathered he adopted it and there is no history unless he is just not pursuing it which would be a mistake.

Keith
-----

Wow, i got a lot of replies. Well, when i adopted him, they got him from the SPCA, which got a bunch of snakes from this guy who passed away. He was a breeder supposedly. Well, it eats well, its gorgeous, and its mine so i dont really care, but id like to know what it is, and you all seem to say knob. BTW thats also a Chihuahuan/Taramuhara right?

Dan

What I meant by hybrid is with another species. There are plenty of WC pyros that have obvious characteristics of pyro and knob in them from southern Arizona.

To me the pattern and the sharpness of the colors could very well have mex-mex in it. Unfortunately there are a lot of hybrids out there where pyros were part of the equation. Also A LOT of knobs were bred to pyros when the knobs first came across the border.

The head looks pyro; some of the markings look knob; who knows?? And it is thick, even for CB.

And it could be pure knob, I just don't think so.

Kerby...

BOBAFETT
try asking Rick Staub if it is one of his
arizona mt. kings that resembles knobs.
I have a pair from him that almost looks
like your snake.Good Luck