Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are a pair of high white/yellow kings. They were purchased in Sept. They were both about nine inches in total lenght(tiny/dwarfs)(in my opinion)

They were fed the same amount(aprox) but kept by two different keepers under slighly different conditions.

The smaller one has grown nicely to about 12 inches, the larger one grew to about 18 inches. The smaller is female, the larger is male(hopefully).

Both were whitish when small. The larger one sort of grew out of it and the smaller one is getting a yellow belly now. Hmmmmmmm?

Why are they such different sizes??? FR

Snakes, like all living things, are individual. Some will outgrow others, just the mixture of genetics.
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1.0 Corn snake
1.0 Black rat snake
1.0 Albino Black rat snake
1.0 Everglades rat snake
0.1 Yellow rat snake
1.1 California king snake
1.0 Prairie king snake
0.1 Black king snake

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Frank,

Are they sibs? If we ignore genetics and and good ole' individual variation and focus on the elements within the keeper's control, such as the "slightly different conditions" you mention, three major factors appear as the likely culprits, IMO anyway.

If we look at husbandry, I would say temerature choices (digestion, metabolism), cage size (metabolism) and diet (rats or mice) would be the factors most likely responsible for the size discrepancy.

I include diet in there because I have seen juvenile kings (eastern types anyway) grow at a much quicker rate when they start choking down well-fed newborn rats, as opposed to fuzzy/hopper mice.

What do do think Goannaman?

Will

Great responce Will(i know it would take a monitor guy to come close)

In this case, I mentioned they were most likely littermates, they came in the same deli cup(hahahahahahahaha)(under same rock). from the same breeder.

Because of the pattern expression, they are of the same line, thats for sure. So yes, its not probable that its genetic variation. In reality that would not matter anyway. As I have found the babies all grow fast, genetics controls the total lenght they attain. Health controls the speed at which they grow. Conditions control the health.

What I was hoping to see is questions, How can anyone come up with an answer without asking questions. In this cases, I gave a little to think about, just not alot.

There was two major differences with these two. The little one had a much greater temperature range. It was kept in a room and was hot in the summer and cooler in the winter. Mine the larger one, was kept in my incubator room. (the coolest spot in the monitor building) Also, the smaller one was fed once or twice a week.(several pinkies at a time) The larger one was fed daily, in this case, one pinky a day for three or four days, the missed a few, then repeated. The funny part is both consumed about the same per week.

On the otherhand, I am raising up four western hogs. One of those is a freak. Shes three times the others under the same conditions. But then, I suck with hognose. But I am quickly learning. I have seen all the hogs in nature, plains, southern, eastern, mexican, etc. But did not keep them before. Thanks FR

Also, the smaller one was fed once or twice a week.(several pinkies at a time) The larger one was fed daily, in this case, one pinky a day for three or four days, the missed a few, then repeated. The funny part is both consumed about the same per week.

Did you guys do this just to see the difference in growth rate?
Thats pretty interesting! Anxious to see the difference in size in about a year!

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1.0 Corn snake
1.0 Black rat snake
1.0 Albino Black rat snake
1.0 Everglades rat snake
0.1 Yellow rat snake
1.1 California king snake
1.0 Prairie king snake
0.1 Black king snake

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

It was more or less by accident. I use to keep and breed lots of kingsnakes, way back when, I started breeding them in 1964 and bred them for about twenty or so years. Then I moved on to pythons, then monitors.

Most of my friends are snake folks. Well, a couple of friends that I have doing lots of hunting with, keep giving me kingsnakes. Then we started to buy some, as well. Well to make a long story short, they are of the current husbandry methods and I am an old fart. One of these fellas calls me, old man.

With the snakes we got, I kept one and my friend kept the other. After a period of time, my snakes out grew theirs by no small margin.

They even gave me what was called an adult Thayeri, It was, about twentyfive inches. Well, its over 36 now. Got her in mid-sept.

The fun part is, these fellas take excellent care of their snakes. Its not comparing to someone who takes little or poor care of their snakes. It is simply a different approach. Thanks, FR

Frank
Thats pretty interesting. I feed my adults 2 or 3 small adult mice every 6 days. They are very healthy looking and not fat. My male cali king was very thin when I got him and the girl I got him from fed him 1 mouse every month!!!! Needless to say, she didnt have a clue. That was in march of '02, he was 19 months old and was only 19"!!!

I put him on the same feeding schedule as the rest of my snakes, and in Sept '02 he was 38"!!!! Doubled his length in 6 months!! The poor little guy was starving for food! He shed sometimes twice a month in the first 6 months I had him. Then between Sep '02 and Jan '03 he only grew 3". So I guess he had "grew" to his correct size for his age. And in the last year he has only grown 7", so now, in Dec '03, he was 48". Thats not a bad size for a cali king, not a whopper, but not bad.

I have a KY locale black rat that is 2.5 years old and is currently 54", and still growing. He still sheds about every other month, so he is still growing at a pretty good rate.
Thanks for the interesting stuff!

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1.0 Corn snake
1.0 Black rat snake
1.0 Albino Black rat snake
1.0 Everglades rat snake
0.1 Yellow rat snake
1.1 California king snake
1.0 Prairie king snake
0.1 Black king snake

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

So, it was not necessarily the range of the temps that allowed for greater success, because the little one had a greater range, but did not grow at the same rate. The larger king, however, had access to more usable temps and was able to take advantage of the situatation.

About the feeding patterns, that tends to go with the popular notion that smaller, more frequent feedings allow for more efficient absorbtion and quicker overall growth, if of course everything else is optimal. Thanks Frank.

Will

Though I do not post much, I visit often. I really just wanted to pass credit where due. How very educational and stimulating your posts were! Great writing style too!
Hats off to you!
Matt