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He was fine this morning.

He was fine this evening.

He was fine two hours ago.

He died in my hands a few minutes ago.

I want to know why. I put him to bed two hours ago, and he was fine. I heard him rearranging his furniture (which isn't unusual) in his cage about thirty minutes ago, and lifted up his blanket (a towel I drape over the cage when I'm up late) to see what he was up to. He was lying on his side, completely limp, and when I picked him up he half-rolled over in my hands, like he wanted to right himself, but couldn't figure out which side was up, then he opened his mouth and it looked like he was trying to turn himself inside out. Wind pipe protruding, tongue hanging out of his mouth, etc. He was obviously in a lot of pain. His neck, maybe the upper quarter of his body, was completely rigid and he kept on opening his mouth wider and wider--it was like he was having a seizure or something. The rest of his body was completely limp except for when he was breathing. About 11:45 he finally, mercifully, died.

The snake was less than a year old. I got him from AAA Reptile in October, and he seemed perfectly healthy. He was a real pisser about shedding in late December, staying blue from Christmas until late January, but his earlier sheds (2) were smooth as silk. He didn't eat this week, but I didn't think a lot of it.

Looking back, it seems obvious that the way he would flip his tail around when excited wasn't completely controlled, and it was certainly wilder this last week or two, but it didn't seem to be unhealthy or terribly abnormal. He went to the vet (exotics specialist) in November, and the vet said he was in great shape--good muscle tone, healthy gum color, active, all that jazz.

His cage was a 20L lined with paper towels, a cardboard box hide spot, a waterbowl, two cardboard tubes, a plastic aquarium decoration, and a few good-sized rocks (washed in the dishwasher). There was a human heating pad + thermostat under one end (thermostat at 95f and functioning) and he had a full spectrum plant light.

Does anyone know what could have killed him?

But very sorry for your loss.
All the best,
Perry

but I also am very sorry for your loss. This kind of story scares the hell out of me. Doesn't sound like you were doing anything wrong.
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Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

Brother, I am so very sorry!

You are to be commended for your care and interest in your snake's health. It seems like his cage was perfect. I wish I had an answer for you.

Was he in contact with any chemicals whatsoever recently?

Also..you mentioned that the thermostat read 95. Was his cage really at 95? I ask cause temps too high can lead to pits not responding well to extreme temps. 95 seems very high in my opinion, if this is true. I say this cause I learned the hard way why my first two pits died: I had all my snakes in temps from like 85-90. I did have snakes that did well, but they were always nervous. My first two pits stopped eating and then one died and one I had to put to sleep cause he about starved himself to death. After what happened, I started to ask around and do some more reading. Now, I keep all my pits and other snakes at 78-82. I have not had one problem from the temps since then. All my pits do great. They are sensitive to extreme lows and highs from my experience.

The lighting and the 95 degree temp in my opinion MAY have been a factor, being it was too much. But honestly, since I wasn't there....that is all I can think of.

He was a beautiful pine my friend. I do hope to see what others may throw in on this situation.

Take care! Please keep posting about this.

Your friend,
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

It could have been the heat, but I don't think so. The thermostat read high. The warmest point in his cage, the exact center of his heating pad, was cooler than my armpit, I'd guess 90. I tried to peel off one of his sticky thermometers to get a more accurate measure, but it came off in pieces. His cardboard box, which was on the edge of his heating pad, was cooler than that. I had the thermostat set for 90 until it got so cold here. The warm end of the cage was catching the draft from the window and getting a little chilly.

The light was a 60 watt bulb more than six inches from his cage and shone through it (along the long axis) rather than onto it. I tried very hard to make sure that his cage was neither too hot nor too cold.

Does anyone know the symptoms for heat stroke (or whatever it may be called) in snakes?

I don't know what chemicals he could have been exposed to other than the AquaSafe water dechlorinator I used. I had him out last night and he was absolutely fine.

Did you at least try to give him mouth to mouth? Just kidding... I would have to agree that 95 degrees is too hot... If your thermostat was a little off as well it could have even been hotter. I have always kept all my snakes between 80-85 degrees on one half of the cage and about 76-80 on the other side... I have raised burms, boas , and lots of colubrids with no problems at these settings... Chemicals may have been possible if you had been using them... An example would be if they got into the water and it wasn't changed.... I am sorry about your loss... For what it's worth I just picked up a bullsnake from Ron at the crawl space... A beautiful speciman from awesome 8ft. parents... He e-mailed me yesterday saying that he would be having a variety of pits available in the near future... He is an honest person who deals with quality pits... Check him out...

Eric Johnson

What type of thermostat did you have? Could you be more specific? Also, sometimes people have hidden defects, like John Ritter's bad valve in his heart... Maybe snakes are no different... However, I think that would be a long shot... Were you just using the wall unit in your house for the thermostat or was it a thermostat for the heat pad... I have noticed those to be off on more then one occassion.

The thermostat was made by Alife and had a built in probe. No model number on it anywhere.

The cold end of his cage was room temperature--72f give or take.

The only other thing I can think of is that maybe the snake in question was actuually a hognose snake that could pop back over and crawl away at any minute... I would hate to think that it descended from ancestors that that may have been crossbred or hybridized...LOL...Lighten up guys I'm just kidding...
Eric Johnson

I'm sorry for your loss. He was quite a handsome pine.

sorry to hear your loss, was that the only snake you had? Ron
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"The Crawl Space"

Yes it was. My only other pet is a wolf spider (Lycosa aspersa, don't know if it has a common name) that I found in Fairfax.

One of the funny things about reptiles is that they will ignore common sense and do things that result in injury or death. I have seen iguanas sit on a hot rock, till they developed burns. A snake trying to avoid the cold sometimes, will go to the hot spot and stay there, even if it is too hot.

95F is way too hot for a Pine. It probably got hotter. The symptoms you describe are classic for severe heat stroke. First exhaustion, then loss of equilibrium and finaly Convulsions and Death.

You are far better off keeping your snake in the 70's which is still tolerable for a pine then running such a high temp. At that, human heating pads are Unreliable and usually overheat without warning...NEVER use Them.

Sorry about your loss...Many years ago I did the same thing. Hard way to learn.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."