Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey you guys: I found someone selling Vietnamese walking Sticks. Whats the verdict? Can these be fed to our Chams? Thanks-Maggie

they could but they wouldn't be too healthy since their exoskeleton is soo hard.

I'm not sure about that particular species but in gge==eneral, phasmids are considered quite a delicacy for the occasional treat. I wishg they were easier to come by here in the States.

Can you please share your source on the walking sticks.

Thanks,
Legendcham

There's on right here on kingsnake..or rather, insecthobbyist.com. In the classified for OTHER INSECTS section.

http://market.insecthobbyist.com/detail.php?cat=7&de=199133
http://market.insecthobbyist.com/detail.php?cat=7&de=199133

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Raf

1.2 Jacksons Adults (Frank, Patty, Lucille)
0.0.6 Jackson's baby
1.1 Nosy Be's (Mars and Roja)
0.1 Adult Sulcatta (POOPIE,I bought it from Victor at Kobey's in SD)
0.0.2 Baby Sulcattas (frick and frack)
1.0 Home's Hingeback Tortoise (SPEEDY, From Victor as well)
1.2 Red ear slider babies (Hingis, Dingis and Dorkus)
0.0.1 3 toed box turtle - No Name Yet
0.0.1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle - No Name Yet
1.0 Red Siberian Husky (Harley)
0.1 Black Lab (Krissy)
0.1 English Bulldog (Alice)
0.1 Blue Merle Great Dane (Wednesday)
Saltwater Fish and Inverts too

Quite by accident I saw a guy with a few at a recent herp show. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Hi Legend Cham: At last I have some info to share with you! I found a guy by the name of Tim on Feeders section of Kingsnake.com The Sticks are pretty reasonable in price too. But, will you guys please leave a few for me..pls, pretty pls!
Thanks-Maggie

Oh sorry, I meant in the Invert/insect section. Maggie

Annams(Vietnamese) are a delicacy for chameleons and should be fed when ever you get the chance. I have a nice little colony going right now and they are the EASIEST things to keep. The nicest part about them is you can put one or two in a cage with your Chameleon and they are like silkworms in that they will walk around and get attention but unlike crickets and won't be able to escape as they aren't too fast and small.
There are a couple of cautions I do recommend. I only feed my stuff Bramble, which is basically Black Berry thickets. They will eat Rose, Oak and Ivy leaves but those are toxic. You also have to be careful where you get your Bramble as the plant will suck up fertilizer or whatever is in the ground which will inevitably be transfered to your animal when eaten. Bottom line though is Annam Walking Sticks are a perfect insect to break a hunger stike and are very nutritious with a soft exoskeleton to boot. USE THEM!!!!!
-Matt

Hey: thanks for the info! I'll get some right away. But first I gotta go buy some bramble and get it started. What else can they eat? Oh, and could you post your housing set up for them? Thanks-Maggie

OOOOOOHHHHH! PRETTY Cham! What morph is that by the way? Maggie

to your chameleon. The plant is taking up nutrients it would otherwise recieve through natural nutrient cycling. Since your flowerbed is not a natural cycle, you need to provide those nutrients. Once in the plant, they are IDENTICAL to what it would recieve in nature, but probably more balanced, which is a good thing. Just a heads up.

Hey thanks for that info! Do you know if the stick bugs can in fact eat the Rose and the Oak leaves? I already have these or could get them more easily then the Bramble. Thanks-Maggie

I beg to differ. While the plant is absorbing the nutrients it is in high quantities. Like anything a plant can only absorb so much before it can't take anymore. So where does the excess go? In most cases the leaves. Now when you have insects eating all of that they start to build a concentration of it which will be given to the Chameleon and can be harmful. An example of a plant that will absorb all the gunk in fertilizer and can transmit this to anything that eats its leaves is a Rose bush. Now, if you are 100% certain or not this is not the case you can go ahead and do what you want, but I assure you it will be with dire consequences. Oak is not to be used unless you are only raising the Walking Sticks as display pets. Oak is bad news and will undoubtably kill your Chameleon. Anyone that has seen an animal dying of Colic will agree with what I am saying.

To raise Walking Sticks all you'll need is a screen cage. You can put a little (25 watt) bulb on them if you need to but I don't and my stuff is doing really well (I am in California so adjust for your setting). Get Bramble clippings and just put the vine end in a vase and make sure the water doesn't run out or else you'll have to change out the clippings faster as they will dry out and be useless. Mist once every day or two to help when they molt so they can get extra water and you will do fine. They breed in droves so if you start out with small ones expect about 3 months before they will be ready to breed. Within 6 months of starting you'll have a large enough colony that you'll be begging people to take some from you. Also, be careful about where and who you get your stuff from and where it gets shipped to as they are illegal in just about every state and could land you in hot water if you ship or recieve them.
-Matt

I am green with envy!! Just gorgeous. What kind is he????? PLEASE tell me!!

Maggie

Nutrients are not toxins, they are what the plant uses to build itself. Proper fertilization does not get absorbed in high quantities. Leaves do not store nutrients beyond what then need, it is either transported to meristematic tissue in the shoot tips or roots for growth, or used to finish leaf maturation. Any excessive buildup of a nutrient is going to put a plant in poor health. This is called fertilizer burn, and will look like the leaves were scorched. It will be rapid and appear within a day or so after application of the fertilizer. But this is not a result of proper fertilization, and can happen with any source of nutrients, whether it be a chemically manufactured fertilizer, manure, or natural deposits a plant taps into. Manufactured fertilizers are formulated to release slowly and not saturate the soil profile all at once. The leaves of a plant such as a rose do not store fertilizer.
Fertilizer is not even taken up by the plant in the form it is applied to the soil. It breaks down into ions which are in the form the plant needs. Take Nitrogen. It is the number one nutrient needed by plants because of the quantity necessary. Nitrogen is not stable in the soil, it leaches out very easily and cannot be stored long. Natural environments solve this problem by storing available nitrogen in plant tissue (not in reservoirs, but as part of the sugars, lipids, proteins, and amino acids used to build tissue). When the plant dies, or is herbivorized, and the plant or herbivore rots, the Nitrogen is taken up quickly by another plant. This is why rainforest soils are generally so poor; all the nutrients are used by the huge biomass of plant matter. Nitrogen not taken up by a plant is quickly leached below the root zone or into a waterway in such high rainfall environment.
In your garden, the nutrients are not returned to the soil, but are harvested. In your flowerbed, you prune or remove unwanted plants, and remove the tissue from the system. Furthermore, you don't plant the diversity needed to replenish nutrients, such as legumes.
Hence, you must feed your plants. Fertilizer. These are not harsh chemicals that are contaminating plants. Your chameleon needs to get the amino acids and proteins from insects, which get them from plants. What happens if the walking stick eats too much? It will grow faster, or build fat. Any necessary nutrient is not concentrated in the insect, it is transmitted into growth or excreted.
Also, there is no "gunk" in fertilizer. It is made of concentrated forms of plant available good nutrients and filler that are used by the plant. The filler is usually ingredients like gypsum that help build soil structure, are NATURAL, and are not taken up by the plant.

If roses are dangerous to chameleons, it is because of a natural chemical produced by the plant, and has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with fertilizer. A wild rose would thus be just as bad. Oak leaves are probably not good because of the natural tannins they produce to discourage herbivores.