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Finally got my first. Here's a couple pics and a couple questions....

Rob Jenkins Jun 08, 2003 11:02 AM

We got this boy, Kirby, from the MD reptile show yesterday. The vendor said he's about a year old. I asked him about the tail and he said it wasn't abnormal for it to go off to the side a little, as you can see in this picture. He said it was because of his hemipenes. He still uses it fine, even able to hang upside down with it, so I'm not worried, but curious. Does anyone else have a gecko with this sort of tail? What does floppy tail syndrome look like?

Second question is about the new Crested Gecko Diet. Has anyone had trouble getting their geckos to eat it? Does it replace the fruit AND crickets in thier diet, so all they need is this stuff?

Here's another picture of Kirby.

Okay, last question. I know these guys are polymorphic(breeder explained to me), but do they actually change colors? He is clearly brown in these pictures, but this morning when I went in to find him curled up in a ball under some leaves, he was an ashy gray color. Normal?

Thanks
Herpcam

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Rob Jenkins
http://herpcam.com

Replies (8)

RedQuake Jun 08, 2003 11:31 AM

Polymorphic? No one explained that to me lol, i had to look it up. I'm still not clear on whether or not it applies to them being able to change colours though. My crested is tan coloured most of the time, but at night he looks very red. I thought either i was seeing things or it was the lighing.

Cool pics by the way I really like his colouring.

Red

Rob Jenkins Jun 08, 2003 11:37 AM

The breeder explained it as the 'box of chocolates' idea; you never know what you're gonna get. They produce all sorts of colored offspring regardless of what the parents look like.

I didn't know what to think, but assumed his color change was normal. Like my blizzard and patternless leopard geckos darken and lighten up.
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Rob Jenkins
http://herpcam.com

RedQuake Jun 08, 2003 11:45 AM

I guess that makes breeding more exciting, never knowing what the babies will look like. I was going to get a breeding pair (female bright red, male light tan) but the price was to high for me at the time and since i'm new to crested geckos one baby seemed better...

Thankyou for explaining that better for me

Take care
Red

mikecoscia Jun 08, 2003 12:36 PM

Hey Rob,
Congrats on the new addition. You can tell when your crested has floppy tail syndrome while they are hanging upside down on the side of the tank. If they can not keep their tail straight above them and pressed to the glass, that’s usually your sign. As far as I know no one really knows what causes it. Some say calcium deficiency, lack of climbing surfaces, combination of both, etc. Could even be genetic, something we might see more of with the increased inbreeding that’s going on.

There are quite a few people here who use the CGD exclusively. I personally don’t like the prefabed stuff and go natural as best I can. All my guys get crix with ripe fruit supplemented once a week or so. Young animals esp thrive on a diet high in insects. However the CGD was designed to replace live prey. It has been debated a lot, so you might want to check the archives.

Crested geckos can not change colors like a chameleon per say. All they do is lighten and darken to a degree depending on their mood. A dull brownish orange crested can be a brilliant orange and all shades in between. Polymorphism refers to their genes. I am not sure how familiar you are with genetics but I’ll keep it simple and try to explain it to you. We all have two copies of each gene, one from mom and one from pop. It is a back up system incase one of the copies is bad, we at least have one that works. Let’s say the gene for being an albino is represented by “a” and the normal gene will be “A”. In leopard geckos a normal looking adult can have two possible combinations; “AA” or “Aa”. I won’t get into all the fancy names and origins but the second one is called a Het for short. He has one bad gene for albino and another perfectly good one. However the good gene takes control and normal colors are produced in the leopard gecko. If an “AA” is bred to an “Aa” you have a 25% chance with each egg that it will be “aa” or albino. If you breed two hets (Aa x Aa) together your chances increase to 50%. And finally once you get two “aa” or albinos and breed them together all hatchlings will have “aa”, because both mom and pop have bad copies of the gene “A” and there is no way around it. Make any sense so far? Quite a few leopard gecko morphs work like this, such as blizzard and pattternless. Polymorphism is much more complicated. Instead of color and or pattern being based off one gene like our simple albino was it’s based of many. For example the gene sequence that represents a specific color and pattern in a crested gecko might look like this “AaBBccDDEeFfggHh”. So unless you have a pair with the same exact set of genes your going to get a lot of different looking offspring, because there is a large number of possible combinations in there. It is possible to get it under control and produce “aabbccddeeffgghh” or anything in between but it will take years of selective breeding. But breeders have to remember you get the good with the bad and if their happen to be any undesirable traits linked to a specific color it to is also going to be expressed, like kinked tails, large heads, eyes, etc. It is something you see in leopard geckos because of all the inbreeding. You def want to avoid as much as you can by bringing in fresh stock.

Anyway I know that was a bit long but, but I hope it makes sense now. If you need anymore care info Rob, just drop me an e-mail and I’ll send you an complete e-guide on crested geckos. Best of luck with the new addition .
-Mike

Rob Jenkins Jun 08, 2003 01:01 PM

I thought that's what he meant, but you've clarified it all now. Makes sense.

I'll keep an eye on Kirby when he goes upside down on the glass next time. He's been real lazy this morning, curled up in a ball under the leaves; dang cute though.

I emailed you for the eguide. I'll read it and search the archives, but I'm sure I'll have more questions later. I'm glad KS made this forum, it's already been a great help.

Thanks!
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Rob Jenkins
http://herpcam.com

RedQuake Jun 08, 2003 10:23 PM

OMG that was wonderful! I totally understand polymorphic now lol. I should have known it already though, took genetics in my OAC Biology class in high school (thats a Canadian version of grade 13 lol, i think its been weeded out now....been a while since i was there LOL).

Ok its been a rough shift at work.......i'm way to tired for my own good, so i'm going to ask a dumb question. How do i email someone? Click on their highlighted name at the top of the message? I'm going to try that.....if it doesnt' work i'll be back LOL.

Red

mikecoscia Jun 09, 2003 09:12 AM

Well I am a high school bio teacher so I would hope I can explain things in an understandable manner....lol. You are right to e-mail someone just click on the their blue underlined name above .
-Mike

mikecoscia Jun 10, 2003 03:11 PM

“If an “AA” is bred to an “Aa” you have a 25% chance with each egg that it will be “aa” or albino. If you breed two hets (Aa x Aa) together your chances increase to 50%. And finally once you get two “aa” or albinos and breed them together all hatchlings will have “aa”, because both mom and pop have bad copies of the gene “A” and there is no way around it”

It should be “AA” x “Aa” will give you only “AA” and “Aa” hatchlings with no albinos (“aa”). An “Aa” x “Aa” or het x het will give you and 25% chance for every egg being an albino. “Aa” x “aa” will give you a 50%, and of course the “aa” x “aa” will give you 100% albinos. Sorry about the typos guess that’s what happens when you rush to beat the bell…lol. Thanks to Tanya for pointing it out.
-Mike

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