Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i know how venomoids are viewed here, so i wont bring up the slicing of the snakes but i do have an egging question.
would any of you think it is wrong to geneticly manuplate a snake so that it is made not hot? like have an imhibiter that block the production of venome.

thanx ahead of time for any and all responces

ashley
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Just A Thought
Ashley
;P

No it would not matter a lick. I think you pro-venomoids are afflicted in the same way as someone that would buy a Dodge Viper and replace its 500 horsepower motor with a toyato four cylinder because you are too poor a driver to handle the power but want to look as if you could. You’re the same kind of person that would stuff some socks down your drawers or pad your braziers to make it look like you’re something you ain’t. Face it dumba$$es. Not every Tom Dick and Harry is meant to keep venomous snakes. And what’s all this ‘hot’ bunk? The word is VENOMOUS. Who the hell thought up ‘hot’? You want to see a hot? Go rent that 1970s video with all those ditzy chicks running around in micro shorts and white t shirts with the letters H.O.T.S. stretched across their chests!

Signed James C. Evans
Ticked Off and Opinionated

Lighten up James! I agree with you that the Venomoiders seem to try every way they can to justify their preference. They just don't get it. But "Hot" IS acceptable slang for venomous herps.

I have to say you have left me with a "vision" of snakes wearing "Falsies"Gad!!)...What a world! (lol)

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Too bad someone cant geneticly engineer a fuctional brain to share amongst these stupid pro-venomoiders.......

>>Too bad someone cant geneticly engineer a fuctional brain to share amongst these stupid pro-venomoiders.......

wow youre being just as bad, but not so long winded
who said i was pro venomoid
i only asked a queation, pure and simple, only seeking answers.
not an insult fest

ashley
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Just A Thought
Ashley
;P

If it could be done without causing any pain or suffering to the animals, I wouldn't have a problem with it. For instance, if you found an animal that was born without functioning venom glands but was otherwise healthy, and you bred from that animal, you could theoretically produce genetic venomoids.

Now if you're talking about surgical or medical experimentation on snakes to produce a venomoid, there would not very much ethical difference between this procedure and any other surgical/medical intervention to cripple an animal.

im not talking about surgery to change a snake but figuring out its genetics, if one (or how ever many needed))gene could be turned off with out causing severe trauma (or even mild) to the snake, but if it hurts the animal i think thats wrong. then once that is figured just breed them. but i like the finding of one better then the lab figuring

question is would it work? hmmm

ashley

ps thanks for not being an ass in responce, i really apprciate it ^_^

Sometimes when a serious genetic abnormality is present, such as the absence of an entire gland (usually excluding color and pattern mutations but not necessarily) you will find other undesirable mutations that are also present. I wouldn't want to introduce something like that into the relatively tiny captive breeding populations.

>>Sometimes when a serious genetic abnormality is present, such as the absence of an entire gland (usually excluding color and pattern mutations but not necessarily) you will find other undesirable mutations that are also present. I wouldn't want to introduce something like that into the relatively tiny captive breeding populations.

that is a very good point, but if one was very healthy with only that one genetic "flaw" would it still be a problem?

ashley
ps thanks for not being an ass in responce, i really apprciate it ^_^

God bless it! did i say i was provenomoider? did i? no, im neutral in that debate, i was just posting an innocent question and i get flamed. jeeze what a bunch of jack asses

ashley
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Just A Thought
Ashley
;P

Funny you should ask that! If you scroll down to Jan 15th, I asked pretty much the same question. I got some decent answers but people seem to go off on tangents anytime venomoids are brought up, as you can already tell from the responses you've gotten. Venomoids are obviously a touchy subject and a lot of people are against them. I've actually noticed that most people who are vehemently against alteration fall into two general groups;

1) Those who think that owning a venomous snake makes them elite or special in some way and the existence of venomoids cheapens their experience. Mostly they seem to be loud and unwilling to discuss much without yelling.

or

2) Those with an interest in the snake's health and well-being. I believe that most in this category are against the actual procedures involved in removal of the glands and ducts themselves and the apparent low suvivorship of the snakes both during and after the procedure. That's pretty much why I introduced my thread from the 15th.

Anyway, there I go on my own tangent. I'm sure some people fit into neither group, and others into both. To each his own, I say. I only have one hot anyway, but it happens to be fully intact. Check out that thread if you want!

-jcostell

thanx for pointing out that thread for me, i thought that most ppl would be too up tight to ask about such things hense why i posted my question.

anywats nice looking cobra btw, very pretty

ashley

thanx again

This is an emotional issue for a lot of people. Some get a bit carried away, calling other's J--- A-- and worse. Both sides get hot. That is why I try to throw a little humour on the fire (sometimes it helps...sometimes not.)

What got you into trouble was that recently there was a very hot arguement on the subject and a lot of people said a lot of very unpleasant things to the point where No one wanted to discuss it further. You had the misfortune of opening the door again.

But to the question: I agree that there is no way you can engineer a physiological change that extreme in a snake without seriously compromising the health, welfare and even identity of that species.

These snakes evolved their entire structure around the use of venom as a food procurement (and to a lesser degree digestive) function. While some more vigorous Elapids might adapt, it would be crippling at least to those who sacrificed muscular strength for their toxic ability. For Vipers, it would mean a life totaly on dead prey as they could not survive in the wild. A plus for keepers, but do you really want to cripple an animal like that?

When you add those factors, throw in the historicly careless nature of the pet trade, where many people out there who sell cannot even identify common snakes (trust me, I ID an amazing amount of snakes for dealers, including Indigos and Coral Snakes that were mis-IDed).

Picture the scenario: A guy walks into a shop and sells (what he says is...)a genetically altered Elapid. With no way to externally confirm this, the dealer turns around and sells it as a "G. Venomoid". Only it isn't.
Far fetched? Think about it.....

Some things are just not worth trying.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

another person with the mind of reason, im happy for that. i see what you mean by crippling (i just dont see any rereleased, poor snake then). out of pure curiosity i asked and now im content
i figured that that may be the case, i try not to read the flame wars on that topic anymore, it just gets old and worn out. but even still i still think ppl should act civialy to eachother in such a hot topic, every one is entitled to their own opinions, but it seems weak of them to use insults to belittle people, yes?

but anyways thank you for the answers and keeping it civil

ashley
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Just A Thought
Ashley
;P

You are going on about how people should be nice and not belittle anyone but in your reply to me you called me like 4 different names you would hear in a school yard...... Also I fall under the catagory of......... I hate the practice because it kills alot of snakes and it causes the ones that survive unnessisary pain and stress...... Yes I am and should be considered elite because I keep these animals safely and worked very hard to do so....... I dont keep them because it is cool and macho, I do it because I enjoy it...... No, I love it....... And I hate when some little rat tries to bypass all the hard work and dedication it takes to keep these animals by cutting its face open or trying to come up with some hairbrained idea of geneticly changing these animals so they cant have what makes them, them..... So I guess I fall under both catagories..... And leave the name calling at the playground.....

i get defensive especial if i just read the post a few above yours and its being insulting, but i vieved that yours was insulting as well and responded with how i felt. i am neither pro or anti venomoid, i was asking only questions seeking only answers, not insults. but it looks like i found insults and felt like responding to them in my own way. i didnt call you 4 differnt names. perhaps you where thinking of someone else
"wow youre being just as bad, but not so long winded
who said i was pro venomoid
i only asked a queation, pure and simple, only seeking answers.
not an insult fest"
where did i call you names in that entire bit? i dont see any play ground name calling, just an opinion that im dealing with ppl that dont have anything else better to say. unless you and james are one and the same but i do not think that is so.

im a little rat trying to bypass all those l33t skills?
i have no desire to keep them hot or not hot. i like them fine outside or seeing them in zoos (or even working with them in zoos ::jealous of ppl that do: or even traped in my camera on 35 mm.
i am only a peron that likes to have questions answered. not flamed because some people dont like the single thought of the subject.
ask questions, leave answers, not flames.

this is a forum and people have their own opinions on the subject, but just because they have their own opinion on the subject doesnt mean they should use insults to further their opinions. as ive said before none of you know me and just tossing assumptions not only makes asses of your self but of others.
it gives people the wrong impression of you

just a thought

ashley

Duh

>>Duh
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Just A Thought
Ashley
;P