Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw something on a PBS show yesterday about the evolution of dogs from wolves that was VERY interesting.

To summarize: A scientist was asked for help in creating less vicious foxes in Siberia. He selected for tameness. This was the only factor being selected for. Now all the foxes were black. But after ten generations, he becan to notice something truly remarkable, the foxes began to show many of the characteristics dogs have- they got different color coats- whites and brown. And their ears started to flop over. It turned out that the genetic sequence that controlled adrenalin and aggressiveness was on the same gene/chromosome (?) as that that controlled melanin and some other traits.

I don't know if this would also be true in reptiles. However it seems like this could potentially explain some behavioral differences many have noticed between morphs (tameness of Tremper albinos, agressiveness of blizzards, etc..).

It struck me as a very interesting experiment to select for tameness rather than color in geckos...I wonder what would happen?

It also makes me wonder- could selecting for tameness help identify which possible hets may actually be het for albino?
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

a couple things come to mind...
furst off from some readings i have done (and ill have to find the info and poast later) melanin and/or albinism is different in mammals than reptiles.
also if that is the case could higher temp incubated geckos result in better demeior?? i dont know.
also, many reptiles are polymorphic ....
some born one color and turn into another in the adult stage.
some animals can cgange drastic colors from day to night or change colors due to their levels of stress ect.
i have a sneaking suspicion that in reptiles it is much more intricate than just simply the color of them that makes them either docile or agressive.. but those are just my thoughts
-----
-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

I have no idea if it is on the same gene in reptiles or not

I agree that "tameness" is not that simple, I think there are probably at least several factors at work.

I think that melanin-linked behavioral differences (if any) would be an entirely different mechanism than incubation temps, I think it would be purely genetic

As far as incubation temps go, studies I have read says that it has the OPPOSITE efect- higher incubation temps actually lead to brain changes that create greater aggressiveness. You might find this study interesting:

216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:9gPumaRZrPgJ:cluster3.biosci.utexas.edu/faculty/lizard/public/IndependentEffectsOfIncub.pdf incubation temperature leopard gecko brain study&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I found an aspect of this article particularly interesting, says that while males from male-based incubation temps are more aggressive, males from female-based incubation temps are actually more active breeders and instigate breeding behavior more readily:

[url]http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/140/10/4501[/url}

This is yet another article I found when searching for the brain study I linked you to above, also very interesting (and considerable more readable!), ir briefly mentions that female leopard geckos with high testosterone can actually develop hemipenes (whoa!).

216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:WgLy0Nq80JoJ:www.usfca.edu/fac-staff/dever/LeopardGecko.PDF incubation temperature leopard gecko brain&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

Sarah,
I think I saw that same show last night, but it was on animal planet. Did it go through alot of the different breeds and what they were bred for? That info about the foxes was very cool.
-----
Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
And the circling is worth it.
Finding beauty in the dissonance." - Maynard James Keenan

I didn't see the whole show, I was getting ready to go out and had the TV on, there was a guy who didn't like dogs that much but was interested in them from an evolutionary standpoint. There was a part about how it wasn't so much that humans had domesticated dogs but that wolves had chosen to be domesticated...villages tossed out scraps, the tamest/least fearful of humans got the most scraps and so had a greater chance of survival, and tameness was selected for naturally

The part about the foxes and tameness/melanin really caught my interest because of course I wondered if the same thing would work in geckos...
-----
Sarah Stettler aka Starling
Sarah@stargecko.com
StarGecko.Com COMING SOON! Star Quality Leopard Geckos
Specializing in Hypotangerine Tremper Albinos

I think I've seen the show before...but it was a long while ago...I'm pretty sure it wasn't on animal planet though...I think that must have been a different show.
-----
Christina

0.3.1 leos (soon to be 1.3.1!)
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-soon to be 1.0 tangerine rainwater albino
1.0 australian shepherd/cattle dog (Foster...although he was being fostered before I got him...that has nothing to do with his name...It's after the beer!...lol since he's australian and I'm a college student!)