Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm about to build a rack for all my snakes, which I'm very excited about, but I have a small concern. I'm planning on using 6x11 inch heat mats for my corns and an 11x11 inch for my black rat even though he's not an adult yet. So, I'll use the 11x11 for my biggest corn for now, then switch later. Do you guys think those size heat pads sound right? I figured the rat would need a larger one, but I haven't seen an adult black rat in person for a long time. I know my 4' corn can coil into a 6x11 space easily. If not, I'll go with 6x11 for all of them. I'd appreciate any opinions.

Hi Kevin,

This is almost impossibly to answer. There are several factors that will determine what size UTH is appropriate for your species. Here are several questions that come to mind:

1) What will the ambient temperature of the room be during the coldest months?

2) Will the racks back up to an interior or exterior wall?

3) Will you be using an sort of conductive matieral to spread the heat beyond the area of the UTH? This could either be something over the pad or the material of the rack itself (PVCX, for example).

4) What size boxes? Height will be important, especially in a cold room.

5) What type and how much substrate?

6) Related to #3, what will the rack be build from and what type of design will you be using? Open sides and backs can make a huge difference in how much supplemental heat is required.

7) Will the boxes have "feet" on the bottom that will create an excessively large space between the shelf and the bottom of the box?

But with all that said, I know from your caging forum posts that you are considering a larger, taller box. Given that a temperature controller is always a good idea I think that the larger UTH size is appropriate here.

However....

If the worst case scenarios of all of the above were met it's possible that a UTH won't provide enough heat for your boxes and that Flexwatt would be more appropriate. I doubt this is the case, but it's possible.

Don't worry about answering all of the above questions. Even if you did it's not like there's some formula one can use to calculate the right answer. I just wanted to use the questions as a demonstration of what things you'll need to consider as you build your rack and choose heating options.

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I'm about to build a rack for all my snakes, which I'm very excited about, but I have a small concern. I'm planning on using 6x11 inch heat mats for my corns and an 11x11 inch for my black rat even though he's not an adult yet. So, I'll use the 11x11 for my biggest corn for now, then switch later. Do you guys think those size heat pads sound right? I figured the rat would need a larger one, but I haven't seen an adult black rat in person for a long time. I know my 4' corn can coil into a 6x11 space easily. If not, I'll go with 6x11 for all of them. I'd appreciate any opinions.

Sorry, I've actually never used a UTH before, just basking lights. The type I'm going to use is called an Ultratherm Heat Pad. They have them at the Bean Farm and they claim to use the same technology as flexwatt, but are sealed in polyurethane for moisture-resistance. They look like the T-Rex Cobra Heat Mats if you've ever seen them.

Anyway, they're UL listed and are regulated according to wattage to get no higher than 95 degrees F (depending on surrounding temperature). All of that info. comes from thebeanfarm.com but I did check around and read up on many heat elements before I made my choice and found an article on these ultratherm pads. It was from some breeder in the UK who used them and he said that they are infrared heaters which would not raise air temperature much, but would heat solid objects (like the body of a snake). Also, he said a rheostat could be used to regulate them, but since the air temperature wasn't being changed much, it was difficult to regulate these kinds of pads with traditional dimmers.

I have found some rubbermaids since I posted on the caging forum and all are at least 12" tall. I plan to have an inch or two of aspen shavings in these and place the pads on top of it. I'm assuming the snakes will rest on or hide beneath them, giving them two options of heating themselves. I just didn't know if the sizes I had chosen would be adequate. I hope I've been more clear, but it seems these pads aren't too popular in the states yet (at least I haven't heard much about them).

The Ultratherms are nice products and do basically use the same technology as flexwatt. However, they do not get as hot as flexwatt as they are designed to be used without a thermostat and/or rheostat. Unregulated Flexwatt gets a lot hotter. I believe I've heard of surface temperatures of 130 degrees.

So, depending on your conditions the 95* max surface temperature may not be enough. The biggest influence on this will be the temperature of your herp room and whether the rack will be on an interior vs. exterior wall or near a window.

Europeans always say these use similar technology as a ceramic/infared heat panels. I don't know if they have different products but this is not the case from what I know. I've seen some of the European marketing for these products and they do word them as infared panels.

Regardless the Ultratherms or Cobra heat pads sold in the US are not the same as infared panels. Think of it this way... How could they have the same technology as Flexwatt AND infared heaters?

But back to the point, Ultratherms are nice products and probably safer than Flewatt. I'm sure they will work fine for your application unless your herp room rarely rises above 70* F.

I do not recommend placing them directly in the cage. I know they say this is okay but it's something I'd avoid as it's an uncessary risk.
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Sorry, I've actually never used a UTH before, just basking lights. The type I'm going to use is called an Ultratherm Heat Pad. They have them at the Bean Farm and they claim to use the same technology as flexwatt, but are sealed in polyurethane for moisture-resistance. They look like the T-Rex Cobra Heat Mats if you've ever seen them.

Anyway, they're UL listed and are regulated according to wattage to get no higher than 95 degrees F (depending on surrounding temperature). All of that info. comes from thebeanfarm.com but I did check around and read up on many heat elements before I made my choice and found an article on these ultratherm pads. It was from some breeder in the UK who used them and he said that they are infrared heaters which would not raise air temperature much, but would heat solid objects (like the body of a snake). Also, he said a rheostat could be used to regulate them, but since the air temperature wasn't being changed much, it was difficult to regulate these kinds of pads with traditional dimmers.

I have found some rubbermaids since I posted on the caging forum and all are at least 12" tall. I plan to have an inch or two of aspen shavings in these and place the pads on top of it. I'm assuming the snakes will rest on or hide beneath them, giving them two options of heating themselves. I just didn't know if the sizes I had chosen would be adequate. I hope I've been more clear, but it seems these pads aren't too popular in the states yet (at least I haven't heard much about them).

So am I understanding correctly, that the infrared heating is totally false? If so, I assume that means they really do just raise ambient temparatures? I haven't ordered yet, so I'd like to get this cleared up before I do. My rack will be in the corner of the room between 2 walls and probably gets in the low 70's at its coolest. Also, if I don't keep the pads inside the enclosures, what would you recommend I do? I'd be worried that the aspen would cause some thermal blocking if put underneath. Thanks for all the help-I'm not as well educated on heat pads as I could be. If you'd like, you can respond to my thread on the caging forum, since this isn't really related to ratsnakes anymore.

Chris has given you some good advice. He knows a lot about cage heating. Let me throw out these ideas for you to also think about.

The temperature of the cage should suite the animal that you are keeping in it. Many snakes like it to be well over 70 F for them to function, but there are exceptions. On the other hand, 95 F is too warm for many rat snakes.

If you need to ad heat to the cage from underneath, consider this, there should be two heat pads and two hide areas. One of the hide areas should be heated, and the other should not. There should also be a heated area outside the hide area in the event that the snake wants to come out. This way, the snake can regulate its own temperature.

It could be that Ultratherms and other UTH's have a significant infared component. But understand that a package of green beens in your freezer gives off infared energy (everything down to absolute zero, or -273.16*C, gives off infared energy).

However, I doubt that UTH's have anywhere near the proportion of infared energy that a radiant heat panel has.

The degree to which these pads will heat the air depends on several factors. Humidity inside of the rubbermaids being the most important.

Again, the ambient temperature of your room is most important here.
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So am I understanding correctly, that the infrared heating is totally false? If so, I assume that means they really do just raise ambient temparatures? I haven't ordered yet, so I'd like to get this cleared up before I do. My rack will be in the corner of the room between 2 walls and probably gets in the low 70's at its coolest. Also, if I don't keep the pads inside the enclosures, what would you recommend I do? I'd be worried that the aspen would cause some thermal blocking if put underneath. Thanks for all the help-I'm not as well educated on heat pads as I could be. If you'd like, you can respond to my thread on the caging forum, since this isn't really related to ratsnakes anymore.

>>If you'd like, you can respond to my thread on the caging forum, since this isn't really related to ratsnakes anymore.

Kevin...don't stop. This is related to ratsnakes, as they must thermoregulate also. I'm into this thread too. Mostly I have Eurasian ratsnakes which are much more cold tolerant than American ratsnakes. But I also have some American rats. Especially my corn and Great Plains rats need the extra heat. I bought five new guttata last fall and two have died already and they keep throwing up their pinkies. It seems they need more heat than the 75*F. room temp, and the heat lamp only helps a little. So I'm getting an education here.

TC

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Ratsnake Haven: Elaphe dione, bimaculata, mandarina, conspicillata, porphyracea coxi, t. taeniura, situla, emoryi; Lampropeltis zonata, and mexicana.